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	<title>Comments on: Why Breeders Must Learn to Listen</title>
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	<description>the lifestyle magazine for dog lovers</description>
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		<title>By: KAza</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-22395</link>
		<dc:creator>KAza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-22395</guid>
		<description>Now the KC have become the aggressor , dont they know how to be proactive instead of reactive ?

I have said repeatedly that the ABS is totally unacceptable, its  a scheme that encourages poor gene pool management by dodgy old breeders who simply gain more recognition through the exhibiting of sub standard dogs, that are then judged by corrupt judges who continue to walk the floors of the kennel club buildings.ACCOLADES FOR SHOWING OR  BREEDING IS PATHETIC, YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM FOR HEALTH SCREENING AND BREED GENE POOL MANAGEMENT.
 For God Sake it isnt rocket science, to improve the health of dogs, stop stating that show dogs are healthy specimens, make testing mandatory for all breeds, stop permitting breed clubs the sway they have and regulate those that fail to implement testing. 
Isnt it now about time that a vote of NO CONFIDENCE was commenced against this heirarchy within the KC.
A NEW SCHEME IS REQUIRED BUT GET IT RIGHT , 
Why not simply call it The Kennel Club Health Registration Scheme. 1. No dog is bred if not health tested 2.No dog is shown if not health tested and certified Fit for purpose. 3.No dog awarded any CC if has no health test for every consecutive year at show. 4. ALL judges appointments held on probation for the next 2 years until they have ALL been reveiewed as judging fairly. 5. EVERY dog born must be microchipped 6.Every breed club assessed as to whether its fit for purpose. 7. An INDEPENDENT review body consisting of vets, welfare inspectors and members of the public to assess all shows. 8. Appoint a new KC breeder panel that ISNT tied in with show judging. 9. A new registration scheme to run alongside the KC as a purely pet scheme that will allow for those dogs to be shown within their general mixes. 10. A fine system in operation for any breeder who uses small line breeding schemes through line ignorance. The KC tend to be reactive NOT proactive !!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now the KC have become the aggressor , dont they know how to be proactive instead of reactive ?</p>
<p>I have said repeatedly that the ABS is totally unacceptable, its  a scheme that encourages poor gene pool management by dodgy old breeders who simply gain more recognition through the exhibiting of sub standard dogs, that are then judged by corrupt judges who continue to walk the floors of the kennel club buildings.ACCOLADES FOR SHOWING OR  BREEDING IS PATHETIC, YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM FOR HEALTH SCREENING AND BREED GENE POOL MANAGEMENT.<br />
 For God Sake it isnt rocket science, to improve the health of dogs, stop stating that show dogs are healthy specimens, make testing mandatory for all breeds, stop permitting breed clubs the sway they have and regulate those that fail to implement testing.<br />
Isnt it now about time that a vote of NO CONFIDENCE was commenced against this heirarchy within the KC.<br />
A NEW SCHEME IS REQUIRED BUT GET IT RIGHT ,<br />
Why not simply call it The Kennel Club Health Registration Scheme. 1. No dog is bred if not health tested 2.No dog is shown if not health tested and certified Fit for purpose. 3.No dog awarded any CC if has no health test for every consecutive year at show. 4. ALL judges appointments held on probation for the next 2 years until they have ALL been reveiewed as judging fairly. 5. EVERY dog born must be microchipped 6.Every breed club assessed as to whether its fit for purpose. 7. An INDEPENDENT review body consisting of vets, welfare inspectors and members of the public to assess all shows. 8. Appoint a new KC breeder panel that ISNT tied in with show judging. 9. A new registration scheme to run alongside the KC as a purely pet scheme that will allow for those dogs to be shown within their general mixes. 10. A fine system in operation for any breeder who uses small line breeding schemes through line ignorance. The KC tend to be reactive NOT proactive !!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: KAza</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21959</link>
		<dc:creator>KAza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21959</guid>
		<description>An expose cannot be balanced or it wouldnt be an expose it would be a debate.
If you feel slighted or misrepresented then do as I would in those circumstances and make a complaint to the PCC. Indeed if the producer gave the impression that you or your friend have been anything other than responsible breeders then issue a summons for damages. Libel and or slander are both legal issues that can afford protection from the Courts. However , what many people fail to realise when making such legal issues public is, you will be under tremendous scrutiny.....

Personally , I feel the programme for all its faults has given a platform for responsible breeders to say , yes there are problems in the dogworld that must be addressed.It also will have a downside, that is, puppy farmers (pet profiteers ) will now be breeding any two dogs and marketing them as superior healthy dogs for huge sums, so designer dogs will be the new trend and that is not good for the health of dogs for the future.

What the programme did do was to show how poor management of gene pools is creating disease, and many older breeders simply do not have the educational background to understand how their own closed breeding systems are actually detrimental to the health of breeds .

I do hope that responsible educated breeders can come together and look at their breeding systems and say that its not working so change is a must, if they dont and I fear many will refuse , then dogs health will decline rapidly.

For those who do submit to the correct testing then so long as you understand how COI works then you can actually improve the gene pool and these breeders MUST be congratulated by the KC and be put forward as potential judges after all they are demonstrating how much they understand about managing dogs which is fundamental to the future health of all breeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An expose cannot be balanced or it wouldnt be an expose it would be a debate.<br />
If you feel slighted or misrepresented then do as I would in those circumstances and make a complaint to the PCC. Indeed if the producer gave the impression that you or your friend have been anything other than responsible breeders then issue a summons for damages. Libel and or slander are both legal issues that can afford protection from the Courts. However , what many people fail to realise when making such legal issues public is, you will be under tremendous scrutiny&#8230;..</p>
<p>Personally , I feel the programme for all its faults has given a platform for responsible breeders to say , yes there are problems in the dogworld that must be addressed.It also will have a downside, that is, puppy farmers (pet profiteers ) will now be breeding any two dogs and marketing them as superior healthy dogs for huge sums, so designer dogs will be the new trend and that is not good for the health of dogs for the future.</p>
<p>What the programme did do was to show how poor management of gene pools is creating disease, and many older breeders simply do not have the educational background to understand how their own closed breeding systems are actually detrimental to the health of breeds .</p>
<p>I do hope that responsible educated breeders can come together and look at their breeding systems and say that its not working so change is a must, if they dont and I fear many will refuse , then dogs health will decline rapidly.</p>
<p>For those who do submit to the correct testing then so long as you understand how COI works then you can actually improve the gene pool and these breeders MUST be congratulated by the KC and be put forward as potential judges after all they are demonstrating how much they understand about managing dogs which is fundamental to the future health of all breeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Smash</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21892</link>
		<dc:creator>Smash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21892</guid>
		<description>I think you have completely missed my point KAza. I would have no problem with the producer if she had bothered to distinguish between good and bad breeders. She simply didnt because that would not made for good viewing. Plain and simple and you know it. Many responsible breeders were filmed in that documentary talking about health testing. Why was that not included?? I wonder why. 

My point is because she has failed to distinguish between the two problems the the above I have mentioned are occuring. What did myself and my friend do to deserve that? the dogs could have been killed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have completely missed my point KAza. I would have no problem with the producer if she had bothered to distinguish between good and bad breeders. She simply didnt because that would not made for good viewing. Plain and simple and you know it. Many responsible breeders were filmed in that documentary talking about health testing. Why was that not included?? I wonder why. </p>
<p>My point is because she has failed to distinguish between the two problems the the above I have mentioned are occuring. What did myself and my friend do to deserve that? the dogs could have been killed!</p>
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		<title>By: KAza</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21886</link>
		<dc:creator>KAza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21886</guid>
		<description>That producer should be proud of herself after-all YOU are now debating this are you not !!!
Have a feeling that producer actually likes dogs very much and doesnt use them as a cash cow !
WELL DONE MS HARRISON</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That producer should be proud of herself after-all YOU are now debating this are you not !!!<br />
Have a feeling that producer actually likes dogs very much and doesnt use them as a cash cow !<br />
WELL DONE MS HARRISON</p>
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		<title>By: KAza</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21885</link>
		<dc:creator>KAza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21885</guid>
		<description>Smash
Hello
 one breed club or one breeder simply cannot be a cure all for every dog born in the UK.It is commendable that YOU do these tests , sadly though many exhibitors dont, they breed to ensble them to attend shows which are costly as is fuel to get them there. Many dont have jobs they delude themselves that they breed to improve and do it at a loss, balderdash, unless they are millionaires they could exist like that !
sHOW EXHIBITORS sell their pups at increased prices why?
they after paying for stud fees are still in pocket, they do little to support rescues and what efforts they do make they ensure the world knows all about it ....
Show exhibitors are why puppy farms exist, if these greedy breeders sold pups for a reasonable sum pet profiteers wouldnt exist as the market for cheap rubbish would be unnecessary.
The KC must enforce judging better to make it a sport and NOT a game run by breeders who judge for enhancement of their own brands ...HEALTH TESTING IS PARAMOUNT and correct breeding is very important for the future of ALL BREEDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smash<br />
Hello<br />
 one breed club or one breeder simply cannot be a cure all for every dog born in the UK.It is commendable that YOU do these tests , sadly though many exhibitors dont, they breed to ensble them to attend shows which are costly as is fuel to get them there. Many dont have jobs they delude themselves that they breed to improve and do it at a loss, balderdash, unless they are millionaires they could exist like that !<br />
sHOW EXHIBITORS sell their pups at increased prices why?<br />
they after paying for stud fees are still in pocket, they do little to support rescues and what efforts they do make they ensure the world knows all about it &#8230;.<br />
Show exhibitors are why puppy farms exist, if these greedy breeders sold pups for a reasonable sum pet profiteers wouldnt exist as the market for cheap rubbish would be unnecessary.<br />
The KC must enforce judging better to make it a sport and NOT a game run by breeders who judge for enhancement of their own brands &#8230;HEALTH TESTING IS PARAMOUNT and correct breeding is very important for the future of ALL BREEDS.</p>
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		<title>By: Smash</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21833</link>
		<dc:creator>Smash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21833</guid>
		<description>My point is Dave that the kennel club can do nothing! they have no powers of authority. It easy to blame them when something goes wrong but they have no leg to stand on when they can do nothing. Maybe what they need is authority to sort out this minority of old type breeders. 

My issue is the fact  that the programme failed to distinguish between bad and good breeders. You find one part of the BBC documentary that praised the efforts already being made. I will answer that for you...NONE! 

My problem is that myself and many other breeders have spent years and lots of money improving our dogs and their health and what do I get? Abusive messages on my website from the public that were emotionally force-fed a scandal that is not only a decade out of date but had no sign of any positive spin on the issue. The cavalier and boxer were from puppy farms for goodness sake, hardly the showing societies fault. It left Joe public with a misguided impression that we are doing nothing when we have been for years.

How many other species can say that 90% of them live happy full lives. I think you would struggle to find such a species. 

My biggest point of all is that this has fuelled mass hysteria which has led to the endangerment of our animals. Since this programme was aired AR activists got into an American dog show and released the dogs from their cages, some of these subsequently went on to get hit by cars on nearby roads and died. More recently a friend of mines champion gundog was released from her bench at a championship show by like minded people. We found her running up and down the hard shoulder of the M11. What did we do to deserve that? How does that help anyone? I do hope the producer of the show is proud of herself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is Dave that the kennel club can do nothing! they have no powers of authority. It easy to blame them when something goes wrong but they have no leg to stand on when they can do nothing. Maybe what they need is authority to sort out this minority of old type breeders. </p>
<p>My issue is the fact  that the programme failed to distinguish between bad and good breeders. You find one part of the BBC documentary that praised the efforts already being made. I will answer that for you&#8230;NONE! </p>
<p>My problem is that myself and many other breeders have spent years and lots of money improving our dogs and their health and what do I get? Abusive messages on my website from the public that were emotionally force-fed a scandal that is not only a decade out of date but had no sign of any positive spin on the issue. The cavalier and boxer were from puppy farms for goodness sake, hardly the showing societies fault. It left Joe public with a misguided impression that we are doing nothing when we have been for years.</p>
<p>How many other species can say that 90% of them live happy full lives. I think you would struggle to find such a species. </p>
<p>My biggest point of all is that this has fuelled mass hysteria which has led to the endangerment of our animals. Since this programme was aired AR activists got into an American dog show and released the dogs from their cages, some of these subsequently went on to get hit by cars on nearby roads and died. More recently a friend of mines champion gundog was released from her bench at a championship show by like minded people. We found her running up and down the hard shoulder of the M11. What did we do to deserve that? How does that help anyone? I do hope the producer of the show is proud of herself.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave the Dog</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21785</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave the Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21785</guid>
		<description>Smash

None of this is meant to be ‘even handed’ when it is only aimed at the breeder and the KC which carry on with outdated and poor breeding practices and standards to the detriment of dogs.

By your own words 10%  WILL suffer from health problems which will have a detrimental effect on their quality of life? 

The best ‘educators’ would be other breeders, breed clubs/societies and the Kennel Club. 
Education doesn’t seem to be wanted so the only other options are going to be either internal KC regulation which is enforced rigorously with checks and balances or Legal enforcement backed up with legislation to ensure there are no loopholes.

You cannot take the puppy farmers/commercial pet shop breeders and pet owners out of the equation. Where do they get their breeding stock or pets from?

I don’t want to tar everybody with the same brush at all! I do want the Kennel Club to start using it’s position to drag the show and breeding world, kicking and screaming if necessary, into this millenia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smash</p>
<p>None of this is meant to be ‘even handed’ when it is only aimed at the breeder and the KC which carry on with outdated and poor breeding practices and standards to the detriment of dogs.</p>
<p>By your own words 10%  WILL suffer from health problems which will have a detrimental effect on their quality of life? </p>
<p>The best ‘educators’ would be other breeders, breed clubs/societies and the Kennel Club.<br />
Education doesn’t seem to be wanted so the only other options are going to be either internal KC regulation which is enforced rigorously with checks and balances or Legal enforcement backed up with legislation to ensure there are no loopholes.</p>
<p>You cannot take the puppy farmers/commercial pet shop breeders and pet owners out of the equation. Where do they get their breeding stock or pets from?</p>
<p>I don’t want to tar everybody with the same brush at all! I do want the Kennel Club to start using it’s position to drag the show and breeding world, kicking and screaming if necessary, into this millenia.</p>
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		<title>By: K9 Magazine - Pet Forums Community</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21782</link>
		<dc:creator>K9 Magazine - Pet Forums Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21782</guid>
		<description>[...] K9 Magazine     Interesting web site I ran across, Mostly about dogs, too many articles to list here.  Why Breeders Must Learn to Listen [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] K9 Magazine     Interesting web site I ran across, Mostly about dogs, too many articles to list here.  Why Breeders Must Learn to Listen [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Smash</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21780</link>
		<dc:creator>Smash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/924/why-breeders-must-learn-to-listen/#comment-21780</guid>
		<description>A very well written and researched article but i cant help but feel it is yet again very one-sided like the BBC documentary. This &quot;Scandal&quot; is a decade behind with  the times. Many breeders already health test. I can say that all the four breeds in which I show the vast majority health test their sires and brood females before mating. I have never had any problems in the 10 years i have been breeding and exhibiting. All my dogs live full happy lives. 

90% of pedigree dogs dogs will not suffer from health problems that will have a detrimental effect on their quality of life- the same percentage as cross-breeds funny enough. 

Take the puppy farmers/ commercial pet shop breeders and pet owners out of that equation it then leaves you with a very very small dog showing community. That small dog showing community during 2007 spent £1.5 million on health testing their canines. Thats a lot more than the media and AR activists would let you believe.  

The number of inherited diseases recognised in the dog is only around 10% of the number recognised in humans. Health in dogs has much improved over the decades and will continue to do so but nothing can be done overnight which seems to be what people are expecting. 

Help to educate the old fashioned breeders who have been around since the recognition of their breeds who do not seem to grasp the concept of health testing, instead stick to what they have always done. Do not tar them all with the same brush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very well written and researched article but i cant help but feel it is yet again very one-sided like the BBC documentary. This &#8220;Scandal&#8221; is a decade behind with  the times. Many breeders already health test. I can say that all the four breeds in which I show the vast majority health test their sires and brood females before mating. I have never had any problems in the 10 years i have been breeding and exhibiting. All my dogs live full happy lives. </p>
<p>90% of pedigree dogs dogs will not suffer from health problems that will have a detrimental effect on their quality of life- the same percentage as cross-breeds funny enough. </p>
<p>Take the puppy farmers/ commercial pet shop breeders and pet owners out of that equation it then leaves you with a very very small dog showing community. That small dog showing community during 2007 spent £1.5 million on health testing their canines. Thats a lot more than the media and AR activists would let you believe.  </p>
<p>The number of inherited diseases recognised in the dog is only around 10% of the number recognised in humans. Health in dogs has much improved over the decades and will continue to do so but nothing can be done overnight which seems to be what people are expecting. </p>
<p>Help to educate the old fashioned breeders who have been around since the recognition of their breeds who do not seem to grasp the concept of health testing, instead stick to what they have always done. Do not tar them all with the same brush.</p>
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