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	<title>Comments on: RSPCA Dangerous Dogs Conference Report, By Alison Green</title>
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	<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/</link>
	<description>the lifestyle magazine for dog lovers</description>
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		<title>By: K9PE</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-91617</link>
		<dc:creator>K9PE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-91617</guid>
		<description>For six odd years the Microchip Advisory Group has acknowledged massive underreporting of adverse reactions to pet microchip implants. 

To quote Chris Laurence in a conversation I had with him on Friday 12th of February 2010,

” Undoubtedly, I think drug reactions or anything where you have a voluntary reporting system is inevitably going to be underreported, it would be stupid to deny that, because when your talking about practicing vets they, a proportion will be responsible enough to report reactions, equally there will be a proportion that won’t and we try very hard all the distributors try very hard to get people to report reactions. I have written as chairman a couple of articles, I have one going in next month saying, pointing out to people that they should be reporting reactions. I have written to veterinary record they have been clear that people should be reporting reactions, so there is a positive push to get people to report things, you are always going to get underreporting anyone who tells you you are not going to get underreporting is talking through their backside basically.”

By the way I have a full recording of the conversation should anyone doubt what I am saying. I will be posting it on my site in the next week to document our conversation.

One academic called Joel Lexchin an associate professor of the School of Health Policy and Management, York University; emergency physician, University Health Network; and associate professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Toronto had this to say about self reporting of adverse reactions in human data:

&quot;If spontaneous reporting is worth preserving, it is clear that current practice needs significant improvement. British data suggest that underreporting may be as high as 98%&quot;

Pet Implant data could be much higher than this because lumps need biopsies to detect tumours. Dead animals need autopsies to identify the implant as the problem. 

In short the reported data is a farce and it is disgraceful that the industry is allowed to self regulate in this way when we are going to make a law compelling people to implant their dogs.

This is a business and as a business it is using groups like Dogs Trust to lobby for compulsory micro chipping.

Here is one example of what I mean.

Chris Laurence is at the same time: 

Chairman of the Microchip Advisory Group - Membership comprised of manufacturers; distributors; databases; major purchasers; major implanters. 

A member of the Pet Advisory Committee. Providing Information and Advice on Pets in Society to Parliament, and National and Local Governmnent. 

Dogs Trust Veterinary Director, pushing for compulsory microchipping.

If this law does go through I’ll be asking few questions about how the public consultation was conducted, it does seem a relatively few people have a disproportionate say in national dog control policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For six odd years the Microchip Advisory Group has acknowledged massive underreporting of adverse reactions to pet microchip implants. </p>
<p>To quote Chris Laurence in a conversation I had with him on Friday 12th of February 2010,</p>
<p>” Undoubtedly, I think drug reactions or anything where you have a voluntary reporting system is inevitably going to be underreported, it would be stupid to deny that, because when your talking about practicing vets they, a proportion will be responsible enough to report reactions, equally there will be a proportion that won’t and we try very hard all the distributors try very hard to get people to report reactions. I have written as chairman a couple of articles, I have one going in next month saying, pointing out to people that they should be reporting reactions. I have written to veterinary record they have been clear that people should be reporting reactions, so there is a positive push to get people to report things, you are always going to get underreporting anyone who tells you you are not going to get underreporting is talking through their backside basically.”</p>
<p>By the way I have a full recording of the conversation should anyone doubt what I am saying. I will be posting it on my site in the next week to document our conversation.</p>
<p>One academic called Joel Lexchin an associate professor of the School of Health Policy and Management, York University; emergency physician, University Health Network; and associate professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Toronto had this to say about self reporting of adverse reactions in human data:</p>
<p>&#8220;If spontaneous reporting is worth preserving, it is clear that current practice needs significant improvement. British data suggest that underreporting may be as high as 98%&#8221;</p>
<p>Pet Implant data could be much higher than this because lumps need biopsies to detect tumours. Dead animals need autopsies to identify the implant as the problem. </p>
<p>In short the reported data is a farce and it is disgraceful that the industry is allowed to self regulate in this way when we are going to make a law compelling people to implant their dogs.</p>
<p>This is a business and as a business it is using groups like Dogs Trust to lobby for compulsory micro chipping.</p>
<p>Here is one example of what I mean.</p>
<p>Chris Laurence is at the same time: </p>
<p>Chairman of the Microchip Advisory Group &#8211; Membership comprised of manufacturers; distributors; databases; major purchasers; major implanters. </p>
<p>A member of the Pet Advisory Committee. Providing Information and Advice on Pets in Society to Parliament, and National and Local Governmnent. </p>
<p>Dogs Trust Veterinary Director, pushing for compulsory microchipping.</p>
<p>If this law does go through I’ll be asking few questions about how the public consultation was conducted, it does seem a relatively few people have a disproportionate say in national dog control policy.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathon</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-23248</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-23248</guid>
		<description>Recently the RSPCA have been conducting a massive fund raising campaign with timothy wass at the helm. When he speak about more care somehow I hear more money, more inspectors Oh more money, more medicine, oh more money. All sounds very cosy and yet we hear regularly they are killing 50,000 dogs a year. The RSPCA a society based on protection from cruelty are actually killing 50,000 dogs a year. Something does not compute, protecting and killing? Let me protect you by killing you? Forgive my ignorance on the lofty topics of animal welfare but if you kill something is that not cruel. From the comments above you can bet that the fluffy and cute dogs used for fundraising campaigns are not being snuffed out but the ugly, dirty and old dogs are gonna go. I mean it would be  cruel to let them live as they dont look nice. It is cruel to all us softhearted people who like puppies and fluffy dogs. Yes RSPCA means bring out the ugly and the old and they will dispatch them quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently the RSPCA have been conducting a massive fund raising campaign with timothy wass at the helm. When he speak about more care somehow I hear more money, more inspectors Oh more money, more medicine, oh more money. All sounds very cosy and yet we hear regularly they are killing 50,000 dogs a year. The RSPCA a society based on protection from cruelty are actually killing 50,000 dogs a year. Something does not compute, protecting and killing? Let me protect you by killing you? Forgive my ignorance on the lofty topics of animal welfare but if you kill something is that not cruel. From the comments above you can bet that the fluffy and cute dogs used for fundraising campaigns are not being snuffed out but the ugly, dirty and old dogs are gonna go. I mean it would be  cruel to let them live as they dont look nice. It is cruel to all us softhearted people who like puppies and fluffy dogs. Yes RSPCA means bring out the ugly and the old and they will dispatch them quick.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-16046</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-16046</guid>
		<description>ohhh and I see they are going to become spey and neuter Nazis ,want all dogs turned into sexless caricatures of real dogs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ohhh and I see they are going to become spey and neuter Nazis ,want all dogs turned into sexless caricatures of real dogs</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-16024</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-16024</guid>
		<description>Whats all this nonsence the R.S.P.C.A. is putting up show the good side of Staffordshire bull terriers when all through the nineties and into the 2000s the R.S.P.C.A. refused to rehome them and PTS any SBT type and other rescues followed the R.S.P.C.A.S lead,thus helping create and make the staffie the disposable dog it is today by getting rid of the excess numbers 
 And not only that the R.S.P.C.A. helped devise and supported the introduction of the DDA they also helped enforce the DDA and gave evidence in court against such dogs saying they were of type 
   To hell with the R.S.P.C.A. its about time the RSPCA started to realise people see them for what they are hypocrites and two faced and a dog thats all bark and no bite they have no power 
   Its about time the RSPCA started spending their money on dogs and animals instead of conferences and expences and stupid uniforms were they act as paramilitarys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats all this nonsence the R.S.P.C.A. is putting up show the good side of Staffordshire bull terriers when all through the nineties and into the 2000s the R.S.P.C.A. refused to rehome them and PTS any SBT type and other rescues followed the R.S.P.C.A.S lead,thus helping create and make the staffie the disposable dog it is today by getting rid of the excess numbers<br />
 And not only that the R.S.P.C.A. helped devise and supported the introduction of the DDA they also helped enforce the DDA and gave evidence in court against such dogs saying they were of type<br />
   To hell with the R.S.P.C.A. its about time the RSPCA started to realise people see them for what they are hypocrites and two faced and a dog thats all bark and no bite they have no power<br />
   Its about time the RSPCA started spending their money on dogs and animals instead of conferences and expences and stupid uniforms were they act as paramilitarys</p>
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		<title>By: alex can</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-14281</link>
		<dc:creator>alex can</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-14281</guid>
		<description>Barry Jones&#039;personal attacks on me would have been better directed at finding solutions to the RSPCA&#039;s anti-dog attitude.  They kill dogs because of looks.  Yes Barry they do.  If it looks like a Pitbull they kill it.  And where are their untrained staff obtaining info on such dogs?  Who in their right mind who owns a pure bred Pit would let them examine it?  They download photos from the internet and kill anything that looks like it.  Yes Barry they are like a sewer disposing of healthy adoptable dogs.  Have their kennel numbers increased with the increase in the UK&#039;s population or are they still at 1970s levels?  Thanks to their attitude people see dogs as disposable commodities, not the sentient beings they are.  If they were serious they would be calling for the repeal of the DDA as they shouted from the rooftops for it&#039;s introduction.  It seems Ellie was deserving of a mention as she was killed by a Pit but where were the other deaths by Rottweilers etc. IMO this stunt was simply a fund-raising venture to line the execs pockets with no attempt at finding a solution; as your post duly confirmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Jones&#8217;personal attacks on me would have been better directed at finding solutions to the RSPCA&#8217;s anti-dog attitude.  They kill dogs because of looks.  Yes Barry they do.  If it looks like a Pitbull they kill it.  And where are their untrained staff obtaining info on such dogs?  Who in their right mind who owns a pure bred Pit would let them examine it?  They download photos from the internet and kill anything that looks like it.  Yes Barry they are like a sewer disposing of healthy adoptable dogs.  Have their kennel numbers increased with the increase in the UK&#8217;s population or are they still at 1970s levels?  Thanks to their attitude people see dogs as disposable commodities, not the sentient beings they are.  If they were serious they would be calling for the repeal of the DDA as they shouted from the rooftops for it&#8217;s introduction.  It seems Ellie was deserving of a mention as she was killed by a Pit but where were the other deaths by Rottweilers etc. IMO this stunt was simply a fund-raising venture to line the execs pockets with no attempt at finding a solution; as your post duly confirmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Measures agreed to tackle 'status dogs' - Pet Forums Community</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-14133</link>
		<dc:creator>Measures agreed to tackle 'status dogs' - Pet Forums Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-14133</guid>
		<description>[...] conference. Was quite interesting. There are a couple of write ups on what was discussed here:   RSPCA Dangerous Dogs Conference Report, By Alison Green  RSPCA Dangerous Dogs Conference Report, By Neil Burton  One thing I dont strictly agree with was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] conference. Was quite interesting. There are a couple of write ups on what was discussed here:   RSPCA Dangerous Dogs Conference Report, By Alison Green  RSPCA Dangerous Dogs Conference Report, By Neil Burton  One thing I dont strictly agree with was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Green</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13919</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13919</guid>
		<description>Thanks for correcting that Simon :) Must say I agree with your comments on &quot;missing a trick&quot; in schools. Its a shame as many kids (my own included) listen to those who speak at schools much more than they do their parents!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for correcting that Simon <img src='http://www.dogmagazine.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Must say I agree with your comments on &#8220;missing a trick&#8221; in schools. Its a shame as many kids (my own included) listen to those who speak at schools much more than they do their parents!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Sheridan</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13853</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Sheridan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13853</guid>
		<description>To Barry Jones

Hello Barry, why did the RSPCA not invite various other groups and organisations that have more of a hands on role with the subjects and issues discussed on the day?

The Kennel Club should have been on the speakers list as the issue of dog breeding as part of the problem was only mentioned by a couple of people, the first to mention it was the council officer Dave Griffiths, he got a round of applause for that.

The next time it was mentioned was by Angela Walder who had a verbal duel with Mr Lambert of the Kennel Club who was a delegate, about the omission of the word &#039;irresponsible&#039; when mentioning dog breeders, that was a bit of a shock as they are usually so &#039;gentleman&#039;s clubbish&#039; all these organisations?

Part of the problem with the RSPCA is that they seem to walk roughshod over other organisations instead of working with them, with the exception of the police.

An example was Mr Piers Claughton informing the delegates that he has arranged dog handling training for those council workers who may not be animal handlers but may be neighbourhood wardens instead and need to seize dogs?

Was this arranged through the Local Government Association or even the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health?

Did the RSPCA miss a chance to tell councils that they should only employ trained people to deal with animals?

Sadly too many of these groups duplicate work, so instead of one concentrating resources on one issue, there are usually 2 or 3 all spending money on the same thing, why not decide on areas that they will work on so they can allocate resources properly?

Alison Green writes that the Dogs Trust delegate mentioned an Animal Welfare Officers handbook written by the PAC.  They may have written it, but on reading it you can see that not many of the contributors have actually ever worked in the frontline dealing with stray dogs. This handbook is a fine example of &#039;experts&#039; writing something based on the &#039;law&#039; of the land rather than any actual hands on experience.

If you have a look at the handbook, look at the photo&#039;s of the dog handling section, why is the person in the photographs using a plastic covered wire lead to capture the dog, what is wrong with a regular slip lead?

It also critcises the legal collar and tag method of ID but heavily plugs microchipping, this contribution surely must come from a microchip company!  Wonder why the authors are so &#039;up&#039; for microchips to be made compulsory....perhaps it is not unconnected to the fact that one of the members of PAC is also on the Microchip Advisory Group? 

Is this how democracy works that affects us as dog owners? 

You write that the RSPCA mops up after everyone else, it sure does not mop up after councils who deal with stray dogs and just what is the legal status of these &#039;abandoned&#039; dogs that the RSPCA deal with?  In law they are stray dogs, so the RSPCA should stick to the law and contact the council. Nothing to do with me it is the law of the land and why should the RSPCA be outside the law when everybody else has to follow it or face the consequences?

This is why people are starting to turn away from them now, they are literally turning into a law unto themselves.

The Inspectors do a great job, the bean counters and non-field staff are the problem and the cause of the resentment that smoulders away in the public nowadays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Barry Jones</p>
<p>Hello Barry, why did the RSPCA not invite various other groups and organisations that have more of a hands on role with the subjects and issues discussed on the day?</p>
<p>The Kennel Club should have been on the speakers list as the issue of dog breeding as part of the problem was only mentioned by a couple of people, the first to mention it was the council officer Dave Griffiths, he got a round of applause for that.</p>
<p>The next time it was mentioned was by Angela Walder who had a verbal duel with Mr Lambert of the Kennel Club who was a delegate, about the omission of the word &#8216;irresponsible&#8217; when mentioning dog breeders, that was a bit of a shock as they are usually so &#8216;gentleman&#8217;s clubbish&#8217; all these organisations?</p>
<p>Part of the problem with the RSPCA is that they seem to walk roughshod over other organisations instead of working with them, with the exception of the police.</p>
<p>An example was Mr Piers Claughton informing the delegates that he has arranged dog handling training for those council workers who may not be animal handlers but may be neighbourhood wardens instead and need to seize dogs?</p>
<p>Was this arranged through the Local Government Association or even the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health?</p>
<p>Did the RSPCA miss a chance to tell councils that they should only employ trained people to deal with animals?</p>
<p>Sadly too many of these groups duplicate work, so instead of one concentrating resources on one issue, there are usually 2 or 3 all spending money on the same thing, why not decide on areas that they will work on so they can allocate resources properly?</p>
<p>Alison Green writes that the Dogs Trust delegate mentioned an Animal Welfare Officers handbook written by the PAC.  They may have written it, but on reading it you can see that not many of the contributors have actually ever worked in the frontline dealing with stray dogs. This handbook is a fine example of &#8216;experts&#8217; writing something based on the &#8216;law&#8217; of the land rather than any actual hands on experience.</p>
<p>If you have a look at the handbook, look at the photo&#8217;s of the dog handling section, why is the person in the photographs using a plastic covered wire lead to capture the dog, what is wrong with a regular slip lead?</p>
<p>It also critcises the legal collar and tag method of ID but heavily plugs microchipping, this contribution surely must come from a microchip company!  Wonder why the authors are so &#8216;up&#8217; for microchips to be made compulsory&#8230;.perhaps it is not unconnected to the fact that one of the members of PAC is also on the Microchip Advisory Group? </p>
<p>Is this how democracy works that affects us as dog owners? </p>
<p>You write that the RSPCA mops up after everyone else, it sure does not mop up after councils who deal with stray dogs and just what is the legal status of these &#8216;abandoned&#8217; dogs that the RSPCA deal with?  In law they are stray dogs, so the RSPCA should stick to the law and contact the council. Nothing to do with me it is the law of the land and why should the RSPCA be outside the law when everybody else has to follow it or face the consequences?</p>
<p>This is why people are starting to turn away from them now, they are literally turning into a law unto themselves.</p>
<p>The Inspectors do a great job, the bean counters and non-field staff are the problem and the cause of the resentment that smoulders away in the public nowadays.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Underwood</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13785</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Underwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13785</guid>
		<description>Good synopsis of the days events, just wanted to say that the comments attributed to Simon Ovens, were actually mine, Simon Underwood (Met Police) BARK Project - Brent Action for Responsible K9s. Mr Ovens was not actually present on the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good synopsis of the days events, just wanted to say that the comments attributed to Simon Ovens, were actually mine, Simon Underwood (Met Police) BARK Project &#8211; Brent Action for Responsible K9s. Mr Ovens was not actually present on the day.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13666</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/559/rspca-dangerous-dogs-conference-report-by-alison-green/#comment-13666</guid>
		<description>&quot;We MUST look into why dogs are biting to gain any insight on reducing bites&quot;

I thought this was a good point made by Kendal Shepherd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We MUST look into why dogs are biting to gain any insight on reducing bites&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought this was a good point made by Kendal Shepherd.</p>
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