Shock as Lost Family Dog is ‘Sold’ by Animal Recovery Firm
Posted By Freelance Writers Date: 6/05 Posted Under: Animal Welfare, Social IssuesFears have been raised today about a trade in stray dogs being sold after it emerged a company charged with the task of reuniting lost dogs with their owners actually sold a much loved family pet forcing a distraught owner to have to fight to gain his own dog back.
Earlier in the year warnings were given that a change in stray dog laws could spell an animal welfare crisis as councils pick up full responsibility for dealing with lost or strayed dogs.
Now it has come to light that a personal disaster has hit home for Adrian McCollin after his Husky, Kiss, ended up being sold by Animal Wardens Ltd, a firm given a local authority contract to deal with strays.
The sorry story gets murkier.
It is reported that Animal Wardens Ltd actually informed desperate Adrian that they had not found his dog at all when it eventually transpired that Kiss had actually been sold onto another family.
K9 Magazine understands that many pet industry professionals had privately expressed great concerns to the local authorities who had contracted out their dog collection responsibilities to Animal Wardens Ltd, to be aware of this type of incident several weeks before Mr McCollin’s upsetting experience.
Mr McCollin is furious and upset and is seeking legal advice after learning that Kiss was sold to a new family after spending 7 days in kennels. The new family is now unwilling to return the dog.
Kiss went missing on April 10th after being taken for a walk on the beach. She ended up in the town centre of Hastings St.Leonard.
Her desperate owner searched high and low for her and reported her missing to the local council immediately. They were directed to speak to Animal Wardens Ltd who had control of the stray dog contract for the local authority.
“We called the service every day and were told ‘nothing of that description has been in whatsoever’, ” said Adrian.
After a week Adrian spent time and money postering in a desperate attempt to be reunited with his much loved companion. Having seen one of the posters, a town hall employee called Adrian to inform him that Kiss was handed in on or around the time that Adrian says she went missing a week earlier. The town hall employee told Adrian that the dog had been passed on to Animal Wardens Ltd.
“Even after calling them and informing them of the date and location of where my dog was picked up, they still denied having any knowledge of a Husky, Adrian explains”
It was after being told of what had happened to Kiss by a town hall official that Adrian confronted Animal Wardens Ltd again, insisting that they DID have his dog as he had been told as much by someone at the town hall. It was at this time that Animal Wardens Ltd admitted that they did indeed have the dog.
A drained and emotional Adrian revealed, “It has been so stressful, I am constantly thinking about it. I haven’t been able to eat or sleep properly.”
Animal Wardens Ltd is run by Paul Dunne. Mr Dunne has admitted his firm made a catalogue of errors, stating that Kiss was unidentified initially and sent to Viking Oaks kennels were strays are routinely taken. He told the Hastings Observer:
“Kiss was rehomed after the statutory seven day period that people have to reclaim dogs had expired. As Kiss is a friendly dog she has settled into her new home with a woman and her two-year-old child very well and, having purchased Kiss she does not want to give her back. We therefore have a stand-off situation that we are trying to resolve. We have offered recompense for the error but neither party wishes to give up rights of ownership to Kiss. As part of that compensation we have offered to purchase a pedigree Husky pup, but unfortunately both owner and keeper are attached to Kiss. This is a one off error that came about through a series of six mistakes, precautions have now been put in place to prevent a reoccurrence.”
A Hastings Council spokesman is quoted: “This is a very unfortunate incident. We know staff at our contractor, Animal Wardens Ltd, are working very hard to resolve this and we hope they will be able to reunite Kiss with her original owners as soon as possible.”
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The quote reads:
This is a one off error that came about through a series of six mistakes
Huh. “One off” is now the definition of “six seperate mistakes” eh? Makes perfect sense…!
How terrible that this has happened after all the previous warnings the local councils had!. Does the local tax payer not have a right in the decision over these things?.I live in the Hastings area and i am also a dog owner. I am extremely concerned if one of my dogs got lost etc, would i ever get reunited?.Was Kiss micro chipped?.Was it a case of “o well the dog wasnt chipped we will make a quick buck”. Perhaps the contract was cheap. Surely its going to cost Mr Dunne dearly when he is sued for gross misconduct,or worse, and the local council time and yet more money when they get real and get rid of this contractor before something worse happens. I understand from the dog world that viking oak kennels recently sold a litter of pups who had parvo virus.Please tell me that our strays arent helping us spread this disease from county to county!
This firm is a complete shower and uses untrained staff, many of whom really do not have a clue and they pull the wool over the eyes of the councils that uses them. In the council world, this company is known as being totally rubbish, sadly usually shortly after a couple of months of operation. I hope Adrian takes them to the cleaners, perhaps the untrained staff did not know what a Husky cross looks like.
what was the problem with the dog owner speaking to this shower every day and they kept saying they did not have the dog?
Had the person Adrian spoke to seen his dog or were they not even in Sussex?
luckily Adrian contacted Animal Wardens Limited every day, so he is 100% in the right against these idiots, if he had not made contact the dog could be legally rehomed and there would be nothing Adrian could do.
Was the dog held for the full statutory period or as it had not been claimed after a couple of days did they sell the dog on?
How much did this company sell the dog for, this is just profit over compassion and competence.
Lol at the ‘one-off error through six mistakes’ if it was not so serious.
Hastings Council states that the Animal Wardens Ltd staff were working hard, Hastings can rest assured that that is one thing they most certainly do not!
Hastings council and Rother council instead of getting a competent stray dog service have ended up with a nightmare, I feel sorry for the dog owners and residents of these areas. Things will only get worse, to use a cliché, watch this space (Hastings and Rother council areas)
Karen
This company must have only got those contracts in your area because it
is known that it undercuts quality and competent rivals, when you pay
peanuts, you really do get monkeys as this incident shows.
They used to have the contract on the Isle of Wight and one of the ex-employees told me that they did not treat their staff very well and
that training was literally non existent less for a ‘pretend’ course
that according to Animal Wardens Limited qualified the trainee as a dog warden after about 3 or 4 days?
I was also told that during some very bizarre training in Manchester that when a stray dog ran back in to a house that the trainer from
Animal Wardens Ltd issued a fixed penalty notice for fouling even though it had not been seen fouling! How bad is that, giving out fines when the
dog had not even fouled, very dangerous ground if you ask me and totally illegal and completely dishonest.
Sad to read about this disgraceful tale, but in a way glad that this company has been exposed as dodgy dealers, hopefully councils may take note of this for future contracts.
this company animal wardens ltd is a real disgrace, what is Hastings council thinking using them to deal with stray dogs?
This is really awful, I saw the BBC news about this last night. the link if you want to watch it is news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7386854.stm
The other day I saw one of these animal warden vans in the Hastings area it had Liverpool city council written on it, why was it in Sussex.
Scandalous! This is what happens when councils think they are making a saving by employing a company to do work on their behalf. What checks did these two councils make in relation to this companys track record, obviously not a lot or they would not be in a situation where they employ somebody who picks dogs up and then deny that they had not got them. What must this company’s procedures and staff be like it is as if the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Although this animal wardens limited company has caused all this trouble, people will only ever remember that Hastings council messed up big time, they will go off elsewhere and the council will never admit that they employed idiots who did not have a clue will they. Why not keep the stray dog people employed by the council like in the old days at least they seemed to know what they were doing, anything must be better than the current lot.
This is a truly shocking article, how can any local authority employ a company who seem to have no idea of what they are doing?
If a dog owner rings in to the council every day or in this case this company called Animal Wardens Limited, they why on earth did nobody at this company manage to put to and two together? where is the register of seized dogs that by law all councils must keep, surely the information was kept by Hastings council in the health department?
Is the person who Adrian has dealt with in the same area as the kennels where Kiss was held? Why could they not see that a Husky cross reported lost and one reported (presumably)found in the same area were one and the same dog, just how many Husky and Husky type dogs are there in Hastings!
Reading the posts about this article I note that Jenny King writes that she saw an Animal Wardens vehicle with ‘Liverpool CC’ written on it driving around the Hastings area, just what the hell is going on here! Has the Liverpool council area now expanded to Hastings on the south coast of England?
I wonder if Liverpool council is aware that a van they presumably have some involvement with and perhaps contribute towards is working on the south coast of the UK? Would this mean Liverpool taxpayers are subsidising the collecting of stray dogs in the Hastings area, very strange, does anybody know how these things work?
Also I was slightly taken aback that the owner of the company Paul Dunne said:
‘This is a one off error that came about through a series of six mistakes’
Surely Mr Dunnes comment is an error in itself and should actually go something like this:
This is a catalogue of errors that came about through a series of major mistakes.
I checked this company’s website and particularly liked the following on the home page:
‘Working closely with local people in a caring, professional way, we promote and enforce responsible animal ownership.’
‘As a client you’ll benefit from regular updates and real flexibility.’
‘You will enjoy agreed service levels, a quick response, unparalleled knowledge and vast experience… guaranteed’
Or should that be:
Coming in our van from Liverpool we will work with local people and seize their dog then deny we have it even though the local person dog owner will ring every day, this is our professional and caring way of dealing and working closely with local people.
As a client you will benefit from the flexibility of the local newspapers and TV company bringing to the attention of your residents problems caused by us on a regular basis but you as the council will be seen as being in the wrong.
A quick response unless we are stuck on the M6, guaranteed knowledge that we do not have a clue what dogs we have seized or what breed they may be and the vast experience that we do not have any idea about what we are doing.
Guaranteed.
The best bit of all however from the website is:
‘You can’t beat local knowledge
Locally based wardens means they not only know the geography of the area, they are also part of the community so the public know and trust them so they are more likely to pass on information that can assist to resolve a situation.’
What on earth does that mean?
If you want a laugh, although this is not really a laughing matter and I truly hope that Adrian does get this matter resolved satisfactorily, then go to the Animal Wardens Limited website at http://www.animalwardens.com
Some of the stuff on it is truly bizarre, how do these people manage to get work with councils?
Finally has anybody who may be into training or NVQ’s know about this course that the animal warden trainees are apparently trained in:
‘All our new wardens receive Level Two NVQ exemption training to enable them to undertake their duties safely and competently’
I asked a dog warden who works for a council just how long it takes to get a handle on the job and to be completely competent, I was told it takes about two years. I also asked about accredited dog warden courses and was told that Wood Green Animal shelter used to do such a week long training course and that nowadays people can go to Bicton College in Devon for a simialr course.
At least these college ones sound like real courses, what does NVQ exemption training really mean?
What must be remembered is that these people who work for Animal Wardens Limited are nothing like real dog wardens who work for local authorities and have a much greater skillbase, depth of knowledge and involvement with legislative issues. The major difference on using them is that they are cheaper than employing a dog warden who is a local government officer and councils love things on the cheap don’t they! Although to pardon the pun, this stray dog company’s appointment will come back to bite them, Hastings Council and Rother District council on the bum.
Wake up and smell the coffee councillors, you might think you have saved money but you have taken on a bunch of muppets who will cause you years of problems.
This company proves that cheap really is not the best!
Nice one K9 Magazine, yet another article of interest and concern to all dog owners is posted by your great magazine to raise awareness of shoddy practices, keep up the good work!
How much did they sell the dog for, does the company keep the money?
Why is this company still trading? Take a look on companies house and how many companies Paul Dunne has been a director of and then folded in the past.
Nobody that i have ever spoken to has had a good word to say about Animal Wardens Ltd and it is now time to get this company investigated! How many more incidents like this must members of the public suffer? The good name and reputation of Local Council Dog Wardens also gets tarnished undeservedly, due to Animal Wardens Ltd lack of knowledge and expertise.
Is there nothing any of us can do to stop this?
I wonder if the(lol) dog loving councils know of this site?. I think that Mr Paul Dunne just has a marvelous printer to print crap off to look good. His website at first looks good, but imagine god forbid if you lost your dog, try to use the links etc as if you had. It really doesnt work. It puts you on a link with lost dogs uk, i believe that this is a charity, i wonder if Animal wardens contribute to this? i doubt it very much, just another area that he is exploiting. I think that we should be paying more attention on the site to the dogs that have gone missing. Its probably all the dogs that he has sold on. I cant see any sign of any dogs in the TN Hastings and Rother areas on there, so where can we see if our lost dogs have been picked up?. When this was with our local councils the website was there for the public to see on a daily basis.Any ideas about how we can get our councils all over the uk to join together and get them out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just had a dreadful thought. Does it not strike everybody that the current keeper of the Husky ( a lady and her 2 year old daughter) hasnt had a say in response to the fact that the owner Adrian wants his dog back. Does she exist?. Does Mr Dunne of Animal wardens want to part with the money that it would cost him for 2 pedigree Husky pups as compensation, as he has offered. Considering the money involved maybe £1000 minimum each, wouldnt you think that being the nature of the company they would just steam in there and get the dog back?. The Husky “Kiss” is a 10 month old Bitch. Very valuable to a puppy farm for breeding or even worse for the fur?.
My Name is Adrian and im the owner of Kiss. I will be having the first meeting with my solicitor today, issuing summons for all parties involved. I’ve been told that the new owners are not willing to give Kiss back after being offered a new husky pup in exchange. I was told by the kennels and the animal warden service that the new keepers of kiss are too attached as she has a 2 year old boy, although by this point they had only had her for 3 days, or should of only had her for three days. I’ve asked Viking Oaks Kennels to relay messeges to the new owners pleeding ti give kiss back. I’ve asked for E.mail to be forwarded, of which the Kennels said they will, and still nothing. It’s got to the point that i really believe that this lady with a 2 year old boy does not excist. I just can’t understand why you can not give a dog back after knowing whats happened, even more unbelievable when your offered a pedigree husky pup in replacement after 3 days. I had a picture of Kiss in Viking Oak kennels, a picture i got from the animal warden who picked kiss up on the day. I had this picture whilst the animal wardens were disputing whether it was a husky that was picked up on the 10th or not. I was told during the first week that the only dog thaqt was picked up on the 10th was a boy and mine infact is a girl. What is more alarming for me is that Kiss was coming to the end of her season when she went missing, which makes her 6-8 times more valuble at that point. I intend to claim compensation from all parties involved, which the majority will go to local kennels. Kiss is a very desirable dog, so much so that at least 1 in 10 people will stop me to remark on her beauty or ask questions and very often asked to sell her on. After calling the Animal Warden everyday and being told “no, we have not had any huskies in or anything that looks like one”, i was convinced a member of the public had found her and decided to keep her. On the 8th day of calling the animal warden service, my girlfriend was told that we can stop calling because they have our details and as soon as anything looking like a husky comes in we will call you. Thats when tha posters went up. If it was not for Elain Brammer of the Hastings Town Hall seeing a poster in the local petshop, I would still be looking for Kiss as the animal warden definately did not have her. The law needs to change, as i have no powers. The Law makes it clear that I am still the Legal owner of Kiss, yet because the new keeper apparently brought her in good faith she is now also the legal owner. The fact that a dog can only be rehomed after seven days and you can’t do anything about it, IF not reclaimed is terrible. I thought the kennels could only LEGALLY sell Kiss if she wasn’t re claimed within the 7 days, so if I’m right, then Kiss was illegally sold, therefore why can i not get her straight back.
I will update the this story once im back from my solicitors and all the way to my reunion.
Thank you everybody for your concern.
Adrian McColin
Hi Adrian
I am so sorry that you have found yourself in this situation due to the complete incompetence of this company called Animal Wardens Limited.
Regarding the law, Hastings Council as the authority with the statutory duty to deal with stray dogs should again by law keep a register of seized dogs. Go to the town hall and as is your right demand to see a copy of the register and see what information is recorded in regard to Kiss? There maybe different dates and information to what you have been told?
What date was she seized by this company and what date was she sold by them?
You think the new owner may not exist, why would this useless company Animal Wardens Limited say this unless they really do have something to hide?
Max Tyson points out that Mr Paul Dunne has had more companies set up and dissolved than most people have had hot dinners, why is this is he close to bankruptcy maybe?
Adrian you must see this through to the courts as it will be just desserts for an organisation that blatantly disregards the law of the land to get its comuppance. An expert dog lawyer is Trevor Cooper, he is the best in the business, advise your solicitor to contact him. Don’t be fobbed off by any flannel or crocodile tears by this company as they rake in money from councils for the to be blunt, crap service they provide. Lack of input maximum profit, great but not at the exspense of animal welfare and the legal process.
Luckily Adrian you made contact with the council or this company Animal Wardens Limited so they cannot say you did not contact them, this will really help your case.
Ask your legal team to demand through the court, a canine habeas corpus so you will know whether or not the new owner and 2 year old child really do exist? Also ask for a bill of sale to be produced.
From what I know about this guy and how he operates he does not treat his staff very well, he thinks he has councils eating out of his hand and he runs rings round them, how arrogant to treat your customers like that!
Perhaps somebody should contact the local government association and tell them that a company that should be investigated by, trading standards, rogue traders and BBC inside out to name just a few is working for members of the LGA? Maybe somebody should send the link for this site to the LGA, they would then at least be aware of the shoddy organisation and operation of Animal Wardens Limited.
As mentioned in the article the change to stray dog laws was a disaster waiting to happen because of poor guidance from the government.
Sadly that nightmare has currently come to Hastings, how long before it comes to your town?
Adrian best of luck with your fight against Mr Dunne and his company Animal Wardens Limited and I hope that you take him to the cleaners, not only will you be fighting for Kiss, you will be fighting for all dogs and their owners to prevent this happening to them.
On a final note, Mr Dunne boasts on his website that his company has the highest liability insurance in the stray dog industry, twenty million pounds, remember that when your legal team asks for damages, just think what you can do for dog welfare in your area with a quarter of a million pounds!
Best of luck and wishing you success in your fight to get Kiss back.
What a scandulous story.Adrian I feel so sorry for you. If a car is stolen and sold on the new owner has to give it back even if it was bought in good faith, how come a dog is not treated with the same care?
Karen’s comments are very scary, when you see that a husky Blue went missing last year, would they really make good coats?
Hastings and Rother dogs should be kenneled in their own area, this is just so very wrong, not even counting the wastage of petrol in transporting these dogs on a 70 mile round trip.
I cannot believe how such a firm can be allowed to operate, why has no one stepped in and stopped them trading?
I live in the Hastings area, my partner is from Manchester, he has known about animal wardens for many years and in fact had a similar situation to Adrians. His dog slipped out when a visitor left his front door open and like Adrian rang the appropriate telephone numbers given to him,police, wardens, local kennels, basically anyone he could think of that may know of his dogs whereabouts, like Adrian he went through hell worrying what had happened to his beloved pet. He decided to take matters into his own hands and drove round all the local kennels where in fact he found her. He was so angry he paid the fees to get her back and left quickly. This normally totally placid guy felt like he was going to ‘explode’ as the attitude of everyone dealing with the situation stunk! He now wishes he had made people more aware of the hell he went through, he genuinely believed this was a ‘one off’ mistake! Had he known that others, in different parts of the country where to experience exactly the same scenario in the hunt for their treasured pets he would not have kept quiet, luckily he was reunited with his dog and his story ended there, Adrians unfortunately has not and like many others we are praying his story has a happy ending. Oh and lets hope and pray that Paul Dunnes does not, he is no business man…. more of a con-man!
When I first found out animalwardens had our local contract I had a look at their website, I have worked with animals, mainly dogs all my adult life and as soon as I started reading I realised that anyone who wasnt ‘doggy’ would be totally taken in by all their ‘crap’!!!! It seems to me that if you have a flashy website then non ‘doggy’ councils think you know what your doing, give you a contract and hey - no need to monitor whats actually going on as long as theyve saved a few pennies!!
Lastly since when have stray dogs been sold? I always believed that they were re-homed with home checks first and often the gesture of a small donation given. I recently spoke to two ladies who have moved to the Bexhill area from the Sevenoaks area. As soon as I mentioned that Viking Oak kennels were involved I was told… ‘Say no more, they have an awful reputation and even their local council would not use them’ … so why are dogs from East Sussex being carted off to Kent? Surely if a dog has strayed, often chased, cornered and caught the last thing it needs is a 45 minute journey to hell!!! Arent there any local kennels who could take the dogs in, who kennelled the dogs before the 1st April or were they just left roaming the streets? Does anyone have any answers to these questions?
I feel a private investigation is needed to find out exactly what us tax payers are actually paying for!!!!
70 mile round trip! what must this firms carbon footprint be like!
As Anna Clayton says why can these dogs not be kenneled in the council areas they have been found, where are the kennels used before the councils gave this extremely important work to Paul Dunns company.
The whole sorry episode and the fact that lots of people seem to know how poor this company is really is truly frightening.
After reading what Paul Dunne said to the Hastings newspaper, I personally think that there is no lady and two year old daughter, what has happened to Kiss?
There are some horrible rumours about Viking Oak kennels.
Somebody needs to check out just how many dogs have been put to sleep in the Hastings and Rother areas by Animal Wardens Ltd and Viking Oak kennels.
The whole thing looks like a company Animal Wardens Ltd is picking dogs up and after the 7 days having them put down.
Somebody in Hastings and Rother council areas needs to go to these councils and find out just how many dogs have been destroyed. I hope that it is not a lot, if it is this shows they are not a compassionate company but one who puts cost above animal care.
Horrible story where is Kiss. Keep fighting Adrian and good luck.
I live in the north west, this company has a number of council agreements around Manchester and surrounding areas, I think they use this guy because he offers the lowest price.
As this story shows though, this is not necessarily the best option when it comes to providing services to the residents of an area.
Totally stunned that someone who operates like this can get away with it. What do these councils do to check out contractors before they appoint them, who checks up on them when they are working for the councils.
Surely because of this very bad publicity these two councils need to hold some kind of meeting to investigate whether they should still use this guy as it is apparent that his company cannot communicate between itself re what has happened to this dog.
How many other dogs have been reported lost by their owner to animal wardens only to end up who knows where because this company has failed to cross check or probably even keep proper records of dogs they have picked up.
This company fundementally fails to help those dog owners who have lost their dogs if it does not know what dogs it has picked up and is holding in its kennels?
Just how hard is it to know what a Husky or even a Husky cross looks like, they are nothing like a terrier or a dalmatian are they.
Years ago my dad used to live in the Old Trafford area of Manchester. One day his dog was in his garden when several dog warden people did a sweep down the street in a line.
they picked up my dads dog out of the garden and took him to the dogs home, my dad had to pay a lot of money to get his dog back when it had not even been out in the street!
I think that it could have been something to do with this company mentioned, the council area was Trafford Borough Council.
Why would a group of dog wardens walk down a street in a line, maybe they had targets to meet or something but it is a bit cheeky to take a dog out of its garden and say it is a stray dog.
The comments beginning to be elicited by this story are becoming seriously un-sound. During 14 years as a dog warden I was accused of theft plenty of times by irresponsible owners whose dogs had been (legitimately) picked up in the course of my duties. There was not one kennel that could be used to hold stray dogs without accusations of everything from ill-treatment to vivisection. What also happened was that in creating the horror stories and ‘effect’ people moved further away from substantial evidence - something that local authorities genuinely try not to do.
So lets stick to what can be established on the evidence.
The owner or Kiss was told that the Council’s contractor had not piucked up his dog when they had. He can now ask to see the copy of the register of stray dogs that the law obliges the Council to keep. Look at ths entry made for his dog, see if there are any discrepancies or alterations in that record (it is known where Kiss was picked up and when) see if his dog’s breed and type are recorded correctly (if not why not). Why was he not invited to visit the kennels to see all the stray dogs? - this is something I always suggested to people looking for their dog for the simple reason that people decribe dogs differently (especially mixed breeds) and even some recognised breeds look different if ungroomed (or clipped off) - if there were any doubts he should have been invited to make such a visit if he was invited why didn’t he go?
Some people are turning this into a fest of anecdotal accusation. If you have concerns over the way stray dogs are treated in your area you have the right to enquire and establish facts. There are certain facts which appear to be becoming established about Animal Wardens Ltd - if they are it is upto the people establishing them to make them public and up to Mr Dunne to provide the answers.
My heart bleeds for both families concerned, what an awful situation to be in.
My first issue concerns the paperworked involved at the kennels, how did they describe the dog that they had found (Adrian ask your solicitor to check this out) also on their records what type of dog do they say they sold.
Unfortunately, there are money grabbing breeders advertising countrywide selling crossbreeds which are part Siberian Husky or part Alaskan Malamute often described as Huskamutes (no such dog). These foolish breeders are telling their innocent clients that they can train these dogs to walk off lead Any dog which has Siberian Husky or Alaskan Malamute in it can NEVER be let of a lead as their natural instinct to run and hunt
can kick in at any time. This is what has happened here to poor Adrien.
Anybody wishing to purchase this type of dog, please contact the Kennel club who will be happy to supply contact details for kc registered pedigree Huskies or Malamutes, which can be purchased for the same price but will also come with the correct and necessary information.
How can a Husky bitch give birth to a malamute, their so much bigger its cruel and dangerous.
If the error was picked up after the new owner had only had Kiss for three days, then come on give her back to Adrien (she’s part of his family) but I hope both Adrian and the new owner take the kennels to the cleaners.
My heart bleeds for both Adrien and the new family what an awful cruel situation to be in.
My first issue here is - on the kennels paperwork, how did they describe the dog that had been handed in and also with regards to the dog that they sold (kiss) what type of dog did they sell to the new family. (Adrien ask your solicitor to check).
I can not see how this has happened everybody knows what a husky looks like especially trained kennel staff.
Unfortunately, there are a few bad breeders around that are selling crossbreeds based on the Siberian Husky or the Alaskan Malamute often referring to them as Huskamutes. (there is no such breed as a Huskamute they are simply way overpriced crossbreeds). Siberian Huskies and Alaskan Malamutes can NEVER be let off of a lead unless they are 100% securely fenced in.This is because their natural instincts to run off and maybe hunt will kick in. This is what happened to Kiss.
Anybody wishing to purchase a husky or malamute should contact the kennel club where they will be given a list of reputable breeders and will be given the correct and necessary information. A kc registered dog with a pedigree can be purchased for the same price as these crossbreeds.
As for the council how can they expect Adrian to take a replacement dog, Kiss will be family to him.
I must say that I am not surprised to see that Animal Wardens Ltd are receiving bad press. I knew it would only be a matter of time before this would happen. How many incidents have we heard of in the past concerning this company that have often gone unreported?
This company has to realise that dogs are quite often seen as a family member, if you lose your dog it feels as though there has been a death in the family.
I hope Adrian manages to make an example of this company but most of all that he gets his dog back. Animal Wardens Ltd have got to be shown that these sub-standard companies cannot get away with this kind of behaviour.
Mr Dunne, stand-by!
I fully agree with Brian Ruby, companies like Animal Wardens should be dealt with accordingly. I have found out in the last 15 mins about another incident regarding the aforementioned company however, i can’t discuss that any further on here.
My full support goes out to Adrian, whom i think should take this case as far as he possibly can, hopefully this will result in the safe return of his dog. I also think that the person presently in posession of this dog decides to return it to Adrian, i cannot understand how she can be so attached to this dog after such a short time. It would be good to hear her story, thats assuming this woman exists.
To C. Jackson
Your first point;10/04/08 Kiss was picked up by a lady who works in the town hall, in Hastings. She phoned Animal wardens ltd. Dog picked up and collar removed by warden. Husky registered as a Husky at Animal Wardens HQ!.( CONFIRMED ON THE 22/04/08)when they knew Adrian had recieved a picture of kiss in viking oak kennels.
Second point: Have you ever tried to get a list from this company to show all dogs kept at kennels?. Ive been waiting 3 weeks!
Third point: Kiss looks almost like a pure breed. If the warden who is supposed to be a senior warden by the way, and who happened to have a trainee with him at the same time apparantly TRAINING him ( i use the term lightly)didnt know what a Husky looked like, then he shouldnt be doing the job.
As you say Adrian could have been invited to the local kennels , but unfortunately the local kennels is some 40miles away!. When he got there he would have seen a piece of paper on his kennels saying BOOKED.
Perhaps you would like to phone Animal Wardens ltd and ask them for their comments etc. Their response will be NO COMMENT believe me Mr Jackson try it!. O and if you speak with the council they tell you to phone animal wardens. Sweet isnt it and so heart felt. I truly believe that everyone at the council is hoping that this will go away. But its not going to anymore. This company is making a mockery out of everyone and rakeing in the money.
Alot of people have mentioned on here about the ” in house training that Animal Wardens ltd do. What a joke, they actually do training courses as stated on their web site at Chester zoo and Marwell zoo. Ha Ha, anyone lost their elephant?!!!!!!!!. No wonder they didnt know what a Husky was!!!!!!!!!
Anyway Adrian, take them to the muck heap at the zoos about this cos the s..t really has hit the fan this time!.
Good luck and keep us posted xxx
To exercise power over essentially powerless creatures in pursuit of wealth is clearly a problem the world over and on every level this needs to stop. Worse still it is all taking place under the guise of caring for the creature’s welfare. Why have Hasting’s Council appointed such a corrupt and incompetent team to do this incredibly important role?
Kiss and it’s ‘owners’ clearly aren’t the first vitims of this ’scam’ and if nothing is done immediately many more dogs and owners will suffer!
Why did this ‘warden’ remove the collar, do you mean he took it off and left it somewhere?
Surely when you ring in and say that you have lost your dog and it is wearing a red collar, this will be an identyfing feature of the dog.
If it has had its collar removed by the so called warden, will it be entered on the dog form that it was wearing a red collar
Why did this person remove the collar, it all sounds a bit fishy to me?
If you really want to make a difference about rubbish or perhaps even good dog control services in your council area, then why not check out this new area on the Pet Owners Parliament:
http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=129&aid=40
At last there is something where we can make our opinions known.
Brilliant to see K9 Magazine teaming up with the National Dog warden Association to keep an eye on how stray dogs are dealt with, make sure you use it, it is for good service as well as bad.
Amazing posts coming out about Animal Wardens Limited, how is it possible that a company with such an alleged track record can get away with this sort of carry on?
‘In house’ training can be a total rip off, unscrupulous companies can make up the training course , deliver whatever content they want then claim their staff are trained.
Bicton College currently runs a week long dog warden course, this is a real course and attendees receive a real certificate.
Hi Everyone,
Firstly i’ll like to thank everyone for their concern and support in this matter, it is some what over whelming.
I have just forwarded all of the extra information thats been given on this page to my solicitor. My solicitors are extremely confident with this case and I now feel new hope of getting Kiss back. Unfortunately it can take several weeks before this appears in court. Everyone is going to have to answer to this, hastings council, ANIMAL WARDEN SERVICE, Viking Oak Kennels, and the new keepers. The fact that the new keepers are refusing to return kiss will affect any chance they have of claiming compensation from the animal warden service. I will be dedicating this weekend on informing every council in the UK that i posibly can of Mr Paul ‘Done’ Dunne, and his service’s. Although many of the Animal wardens service staff are terrible to say it lightly, if it wasn’t for the animal warden on the day sending me a picture of kiss in the kennels then i would never of been able to confirm that it was actually kiss, even though Elain Brammer of hastings town hall handed her in and was behind me all of the way. All i have heard is that the animal warden service are doing what they can to fix the problem. Well, i don’t believe that concidering i have not recieved one phone call from anyone, although my girlfriend did recieve a call on 23rd April from Paul Dunne admitting their mistake and saying he will look into it. i’m not being told anythingby anyone. when i call the animal wardens they just tell me to call back and speak to carol. i’ve given my phone number to them about 1000 times and still nothing. well i wouldn’t want to speak to me if i was them, concidering the amount of questions i just wouldn’t be able to answer like: 1. who infact is to blame for the information not being logged on their systems? 2. if it was logged on your system, then why was we told no everyday? 3. if the information was not there during the seven days then where did it come from? 4. Do they have a log of call outs made, if so why was there not one for hastings town hall/information centre? 5. Most importantly, what exactly are you doing to get her back, or are you waiting for me to go away like everyone else?
6. Finally, what WAS it like making money of dogs?
These are the questions that i fell will finally bring them down. Lets hope so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Adrian,
Really sorry to hear what you have had to go through.
No dog owner should ever be in this position and it is all down to the competency (or lack of) a firm who should have done their job properly.
If it can be of any assistance at all, today a new scheme has launched called ServiceWatch - which aims to enable people to demand the highest standards from their local authorities in relation to animal control. You can find out more here http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=129&aid=40
If the Pet Owners Parliament can assist you in any way in terms of your lobbying and awareness drive to local councils, please don’t hesitate to let me know.
I wish you the very, very best of luck getting Kiss back where she belongs.
Adrian
Great to read that you are making progress in your endeavours to get Kiss back.
Be very careful of Animal Wardens Limited because within the industry, (not anything like the incompetence shown by Animal Wardens Limited) you hear rumours that when the heat falls on this company, they like to threaten legal action to divert criticism.
The outrage caused by this incident and the complete failure of any kind of organisational ability or seemingly not having any idea about what they should be doing, shows that the shoe is on the other foot for Animal Wardens Limited for once and they are caught in the glare of public outrage.
Paul Dunne rakes in the dough from councils, so don’t believe they, Animal Wardens Limited are short of money!
The ’senior’ warden mentioned above in the blogs is a person who is sent all over the country for a week here a couple of days there, how can any kind of local knowledge be built up operating like that! Then again maybe this is part of the reason that it has all fallen apart and gone so wrong in Hastings and Rother areas?
The ’senior’ warden who is referred to above and seems to be the person who took the collar off Kiss, if he is also training trainees then the truly scary thing is, that the trainer doesn’t have a clue about what he is teaching.
Par for the course then for Animal Wardens Limited!
Keep the faith Adrian and good luck with your quest to tell Councils about your experience.
As well as writing to councils, you should also write to your MP and maybe the Local Government Association, they represent UK councils. Address your letters for the attention of the Chief Environmental Health Officer.
You should complete the Pet Owners Parliament form that Ryan O’Meara mentions, it will be another area where a record of what has happened will be stored and used in the report that is being compiled.
Hi Adrian
If the senior warden is the man I think it is, he is an extremely poor dog handler who it is alleged is not good working with big dogs?
Why would you want to work with dogs if you’re scared of big ones!
As it seems that Animal Wardens Limited don’t really invest much in their people with training and minor issues such as ensuring employees are competent at dog handling, they must therefore be applauded on using a ‘trainer’ who it is alleged does not like big dogs and is pants with general dog handling!
Although the circumstances are terrible and have caused so much anguish and distress for Adrian McCollin, it is almost like a great secret has come out into the open regarding this company. If anybody remembers the film Independence Day, then Animal Wardens Limited are like the aliens. They arrive at a council area, set up their unique method of working, the council finds itself stuck with them and their methods of work, has to pay them for the duration of any contract andusually when the contract comes up for renewal the council may bring the service back under council control. I think that what the problem is regarding Animal Wardens Limited is that they treat the south coast as if it is an inner city in the northwest. In the northern cities there are different issues and I have seen large packs of dogs wandering around in northern towns. With little finances and other priorities to deal with, stray dog control is probably viewed differently than down in the south and not given a high priority, hence packs of dogs. I think that what I am trying to say is that more dogs are destroyed in the north than in the south, so a northern perspective is being used to deal with strays in Hastings. A lack of training and direction makes people who join this company fall into the chaotic, shambolic and directionless work ethic that is Animal Wardens Limited, this is sad as all these committed people can do is leave because of the lack of investment, or stay and due to no training carry on trying to do the job. Unless there is a local Animal Wardens Limited contact in Hastings I think all calls are dealt with via Manchester. Do the Animal Wardens Limited operators know the areas around these two council areas. maybe this is the problem, without local representatives dealing with queries and reunification, then sending employees down to cover for a couple of days hardly brings an aura of local knowledge. The councils need to look at whether the type of service offered to their residents is value for money or whether thinking that the cheap as chips option saved them money it has cost them respect from their residents. Without running to the defence of these councils, they probably fell for the pitch of Animal Wardens Limited , they may ‘talk the talk’ but as plainly shown by this and other incidents around the country, they certainly cannot ‘walk the walk’ or deliver the goods.
Come on Hastings council, what are you going to do?
Somebody at your council needs to take charge and closely supervise this company from now on, hardly the hands free package that you were probably told you would be getting.
If Adrian had not persevered and stuck to his guns, nobody would be any the wiser about this company, the council and the public would have been oblivious.
It shows that it really is important to fight for what is precious, in this case Adrian’s dog Kiss.
Good luck Adrian, best of luck with your endeavours to get your dog returned.
Just what the hell was this company thinking about, sound like rank amateurs to me!
Then again what was Hastings Council thinking about using this firm.
I decided to check the Hasting Borough Council website and I was shocked to read the information that it seems that all the fees and charges for dogs seized in the area have to be paid to animal wardens limited.
They claim that they operate 24-7 but they charge dog owners £30 on top of the other charges around £35 per day for their dog to be returned outside 12 noon and 7pm.
The council must have done a deal where the statutory charge of £25 plus other costs is paid to animal wardens limited.
It also mentions their national call centre, so they do operate from outside the area where a dog is collected, no wonder they dont have any idea about what has been collected.
The link to the Hastings council site is: http://www.hastings.gov.uk/animal_nuisance/straydogs
Perhaps instead of it saying ‘animal_nuisance’, maybe it should say ‘animal wardens limited nuisance’
Check out how this company is making money and how it also seems that the council has washed its hands of having anything to do with dogs.
Possibly I am being too much of a conspiracy theorist but if everything is done by animal wardens limited, well instead of bothering to rehome dogs at the end of the seven day period and perhaps spend more money on them, what other options would a company that puts profit over compassion have to use?
Hastings Borough Council’s chief enviromental officer is the one to ask. There is supposed to be a freedom of information, so anyone can inspect details at the council office. I believe officer to be Mike Hepworth.
Rother is a separate council and their blurb tells me that Richard Parker-Harding is their man. Hastings used to run a really good almost elite dog warden service, proffessionally handled by head warden Rod Bridger. Re instate this man! I also believe their dogs were housed at a westfield kennels which is only half a mile outside of the hastings border, the kennels did an excellent job in caring for the dogs and home checked before any strays were rehomed.
Does any one know if viking oak does has the parvo virus in its kennels, as stories are circulating about some puppies that they sold. Dog owners should be aware if this is true, so as to safeguard their pets and that the disease not be spread.
Is there anybody in the hastings council area who could go to the town hall and ask to see register of stray dogs that they have to keep by law.
This would show how many dogs have been put to sleep since this company started operating in the area.
It is vile that they put extra charges on top of charges when they use a kennels that is many miles away from Hastings to return a dog to its owner.
This is just what you get whenever you use untrained people in any sort of discipline.
I am scratching my head after reading that the warden who was carrying out training in the area is supposed to not like big dogs and is a poor handler, surely being able to do both is very important when you have to handle unpredictable dogs of whatever size?
Please come and handle some of my fellows and see how you get on handling them poorly!
Once you have been taught how to handle dogs properly, we can then get some kind of legislative training organised, then you may have some kind of idea about what you should be doing!
I will even throw in a dog identification book so that you can refer to a dogs breed type if you are at a loss to recognise a dog type. As a crazy afterthought, you might want to keep it in your van, I assume you do have a proper van with cages?
Surely it is time that people working in animal control duties have to be licensed or have to pass some kind of test before they can be let loose on peoples dogs. Otherwise I suppose you could get people straight out of the job centre with little or no dog experience.
I take it that this is not how Animal Wardens the firm operates…..or is it.
If anybody from the USA is reading this, do you know if Animal Control Officers in the individual states have to be licensed by the state authorities to operate?
Hello Everyone
If you go to the Hasting Observer website and type ‘dog’ in the search facility a list of links comes up, when you click on the link re Adrian and Kiss, you get a picture of……. well a Husky.
Just how on earth could the Animal Wardens warden not see that Kiss is very ‘Husky’ looking!
Adrian are you able to scan the picture that you were given of Kiss in the Viking kennels and send it out via a link or maybe send it to K9 magazine and ask them to post it on this article so we can have a look please.
‘Hastings Borough Council’s chief enviromental officer is the one to ask. There is supposed to be a freedom of information, so anyone can inspect details at the council office. I believe officer to be Mike Hepworth.
Rother is a separate council and their blurb tells me that Richard Parker-Harding is their man. Hastings used to run a really good almost elite dog warden service, proffessionally handled by head warden Rod Bridger. Re instate this man! I also believe their dogs were housed at a westfield kennels which is only half a mile outside of the hastings border, the kennels did an excellent job in caring for the dogs and home checked before any strays were rehomed.
Does any one know if viking oak does has the parvo virus in its kennels, as stories are circulating about some puppies that they sold. Dog owners should be aware if this is true, so as to safeguard their pets and that the disease not be spread.’
Anna,
What has happened to Rod Bridger, has he been dismissed or moved to another council job? You do not need to get a Freedom of Information request to check on how many dogs the council has destroyed.
As others write above about the register of stray dogs, it is a legal requirement of the council to keep this, if it is being kept by Animal Wardens Limited and they are not producing it when requested, they are breaking the law.
Check out the Environmental Protection Act 1990, it clearly states that councils have to keep a register of stray dogs and that the public are entitled to ask to see a copy.
This is nothing to do with the Freedom of Information, if as it states above too that somebody has been trying to find the information out for three weeks from Animal Wardens limited, then they are acting illegally by not producing it.
Then again knowing how this company operates, maybe they have never heard of the register of stray dogs.
Where is the register of stray dogs? Complain to the council, they would have had one when the service was run by Rod Bridger as when dogs are seized the paperwork is processed either into a ledger or onto a computer but the council still has to produce the details when requested.
If the kennels they take their dogs to have parvo-virus and they know this but continue to take their dogs in, they are also acting irresponsibly and dangerously as they can be contributing to spreading it around the area.
Other stray dog kennels that find they have parvo-virus close immediately and then work to eradicate it as best they can, they can be shut for several weeks. By continuing to take dogs in to these kennels they are then possibly making these dogs vectors for the disease when they return them to different parts of their home districts.
If there is a kennels only half a mile beyond the Hastings border, why do they take these dogs all that way to another kennels that is 40 odd miles further on, could it be anything to do with money or what happens to those dogs that are not claimed?
When I read the article about the sale of dogs connection I thought oh no but when it quotes Mr Paul Dunne as saying Kiss was rehomed to a lady and her two year old daughter and it was so quick after being seized or whatever has gone on, I wondered just what kind of suitability and compatability test was carried out.
After all Kiss is a young dog and Animal Wardens Limited has rehomed Kiss to a presumably single lady and two year old child (not that there is anything wrong with one parent families having dogs)how can Kiss’s temperment have been gauged if she was kept in kennels all along.
Is there in fact any lady and child ‘new’ owners of Kiss? Surely if the new owners had been approached and the situation explained properly, who would not have thought that as the original owner has been found (or in this case was known all along we will let them have the dog back and we will receive a refund.
This part of the whole sorry episode is setting alarm bells ringing, perhaps Mr McCollin needs to ask his lawyers to summons Kiss’s new owner to court to prove that this person does in fact exist.
Then again if the register of stray dogs is in the town hall it must show the disposal of Kiss and as it is a public record surely Mr McCollin would be able to find out who the new owner is?
What will happen if it comes to light that there is no new owner of Kiss, especially after what the company has publicly stated and it is recorded in the media.
Just a short note in response to the C.Jackson posting.
I own a kennels in the Rother District Council area. I had the stray dog contract for this area for the last 2 years before Animal Wardens ltd took over. I would just like to comment on your points about never having had a kennel involved that wasnt accussed of theft/ vivisection etc. I dont recall any complaint or suspicion of theft ever happening or infact anything in the Hastings and Rother district of this nature, ever.
I am very saddened to hear about the Husky story and i hope that Adrian gets her back very soon.Its alot for a young dog to cope with.She must wonder why she was taken from her doting Dad. Good luck xxx
Hi K Robinson
I think that what C Jackson was saying is that when you work as a dog warden (you write that you used to have the contract before Animal Wardens Limited)you get accused of all kinds of things. When you used to collect dogs, there must have been times when you had to deal with a violent or angry or even both, dog owner who was not happy becuase you had seized their dog whilst complying with the councils statutory requirements under the law.
You do sometimes hear anecdotal tales of ‘the dog catcher stole my dog out of our back yard’, when you really look in to it, the dog has managed to get out of the yard, as you know yourself with no collar or microchip to ID it, the stage of dog wardens using ESP to find the owner is not yet upon us.
Incidentally as you say that you used to have the previous contact, is it possible that you could enlighten me and perhaps other contributors about the following please:
1. Do you know how many tenders were received for the contract?
2. When you did it, how many dogs did you have to PTS over the two years for reasons such as illness or aggression?
3. Did you charge dog owners an extra £30 to get their dogs back like it seems Animal Wardens Limited do (check their blurb on the council link)
4. Did you charge £35 per day as it seems to say on the Hastings Council link shown above?
5. Did you cover daytime and evenings in Rother council area, does this mean that R Bridger worked the Hastings patch. Do you know what kind of work he is doing now?
6. Do you have any idea why the council stopped using a local company and instead went out to one that is based in the north of England?
Any light on the subject would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Please do not read this story and think that all dog wardens operate like this company.
There are still some local government officers employed as dog wardens, they are nothing like the so called ‘wardens’ of the Animal Wardens company.
In the world of stray dogs this company is known to not put much training the way of its employees this is really dangerous for the employees and the public if things go wrong.
This company lost the North Warwickshire council contract a couple of months ago, if they were okay they would have still been working wouldnt they, the council employed its own dog warden again.
Maybe these two councils should bring their old workers back to do the job.
I put the name of this company on the internet and this came up from Liverpool Council (remember their van was seen driving around Hastings):
‘Animal Wardens Limited
Animal Wardens Limited will operate a service effective 6 April 2008, on behalf of Liverpool City Council, Halton Borough Council and Sefton District Council, for dogs that are reported after 5.00 pm. Animal Wardens Limited can be contacted on telephone number 0845 241 7253.
It is important to note that the out of hours service will only collect stray dogs that can be held or contained by the finder and that there is no general search provision.’
Reading what they do above, it is as if they are doing people a favour, they do not actually respond to dogs wandering around, what about safety of people and the dog? ‘Contained by the finder and that there is no general search provision’
Re the search provision wonder if this means once your dog has been picked up they will not search the kennels to look for it and get it back to you!
Hi Everyone,
Ian Merlin and anyone else with questions.
E.Mail: adrian3000@hotmail.co.uk
I’ll be at the Town Hall on Monday morning, but I am almost certain that i’m not going to find a register. Hastings Council are fully aware of the situation as I recieved a phone call from Mike Hepworth on 22nd April stating they have confirmed it is a husky in the Kennels and he is trying confirm that it is actually my dog and he will then get back to me. . . . . . still waiting. Carol from the Warden service bluntly told my girlfriend that she is in a meeting and will call back as soon as she is done. . . . . . . must be a meeting about how their going to fix this problem because we’re still waiting. Each day this week, my girlfriend has called the warden service and was told each time Carol is in a meeting or Carol has said herself that she is in a meeting. Each time we were told, i’ll call you back. In my first comment on this page i said that Paul dunne had called my girlfriend admitting the mistake, but it was infact Carol that called. At the time of the call Carol was apparently the head of Animal warden service and when i later found out it was Paul Dunne i assumed it was the same person she spoke to, as she told me she spoke with the head of the animal warden service. So Until today i thought Paul Dunne had only made 1 attempt to inform me or my girlfriend about the situation when infact he has not done a thing. Carol made another call to my girlfriend 24th April asking if given another Husky how much compensation will we be after. Now, if you had just brought a dog and after 3-4 days find out the owners have been found, would you not give it back after being offered a pedigree husky pup and compensation. I can’t think of one person i know or have ever known that would say no, apart from the imaginary family that can’t say yes because they don’t excist. Part of me really hopes that it is an imaginary family because Virus Oak Kennels and animal warden service would surely be immediatly shut down, but then the other part of me would die all over again for the loss of Kiss.
Up until the day Kiss went missing she never left my side. I never stayed away, and i never went away. the longest we would have been apart would have been if i was going shopping on my own, so no more then an hour. Kiss came to work with me as i worked in the office of a factory that has a large amount of land that kiss had to run around all day with my boss’s labradour. Kiss chose to sleep at the end of my bed every night and woke me up religiously between 06:00-07:00 everyday without fail. It’s not so bad now but i still open doors really slowly as Kiss always use to sit by the door as soon as i leave the room. I still have tins and bags of dog food, just marinating for Kiss’s return.
Again and again, thank you everyone for your support.
Quick note: This story has been on: Page 3 of ‘The Hastings Observer’ Page 33 of ‘The Times’ saturday addition, BBC south east today, commented on page 6 and 41 of this weeks issue of ‘The Observer’ and this web-site. BBC want a follow up, and want to see this through to the reunion along with the observer. This story was taken on by everyone when they only knew the rough story which was obviously enough for TV. I assume the press will have a field day with actual facts about the company as any fact about animal warden service must be a joke.
Hello Adrian
Firstly, thank you for updating us all and secondly I will contact you on your email.
Ian
Adrian
Many thanks for your updates.
Have you sent a link to this page to the BBC so they can carry out research for any follow up story?
Good luck at the town hall on Monday.
Adrian
The Environmental Protection Act 1990 s.149
(Statutory Instrument 1992 No 228)
Says the following:
Register of seized dogs — prescribed particulars
3. For the purposes of section 149(8) of the Act, the following are the prescribed particulars to be contained in the register of seized dogs which is kept by the officer—
(a) a brief description of each dog, including its breed (if known), and any distinctive physical characteristics or markings, tattoos or scars;
(b) any information which is recorded on a tag or collar worn by, or which is otherwise carried by, the dog;
(c) the date, time and place of the seizure;
(d) where a notice has been served pursuant to section 149(4), the date of service of the notice, and the name and address of the person on whom it has been served;
(e) where the officer disposes of the dog pursuant to section 149(6)—
(i) the date of disposal;
(ii) whether disposal was by destruction, gift or sale, and if by sale, the price obtained;
(iii) the name and address of the purchaser, donee or person effecting the destruction; and
(f) where the dog was returned to a person claiming to be its owner, the name and address of that person, and the date of return.
Note it says the following Are the prescribed particulars etc. to be kept by the Officer. This is the legally required document to be kept and held by the Local Authority Officer responsible for dealing with stray dogs. That responsibility is then delegated to whoever will carry out the task on the ground.
You have a legal right to see the document as the Council has a legal requirement to hold it and produce it when requested.
Good luck
Animal Wardens are becoming a scourge.
I am trying to find out why one of their operators came into my local councils area several days ago, removed a dog and transported it to a contract kennels in another council’s area. This council has its own Dog Wardens and its own Kennels.
Animal Wardens are not contracted to this council and are not authorised to deal with dogs in this area.
The dog was very close to our own council’s kennels and could have gone to there.
This is not the first time I know that this firm have strayed into other council areas without authorisation.
The answer in the past is that they work on postcodes! I have news for them, council areas don’t work by postcodes especially when there is a very large, wide, river between them and another area!
I remember quite a few years ago, that one of the Cheshire Boroughs decided to privatise their Dog Wardens. They awarded the contract to Animal Wardens. Several months later I was speaking to one of the Borough Officers involved in dealing with the contract. He was praying for the contract to finish so that they could bring the Service back within the council. Says it all.
I don’t blame the local authorities really, they have been left holding the shitty end of the stick by central Government. In many cases their only options were to provide no service at all, (I know 2 Cheshire LA’s who have chosen that route) or to contract out.
It is a reality that private companies taking on contracts like this are in it for one thing only, to make a profit.
I’ve been trying to catch up on the various different facets to this story.
I’ve just read what other commenters have alluded to:
(From Hastings Borough Council Website)
Stray Dog Costs
If you allow your dog to stray or roam free, our contractor can impound it as a stray under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. If this happens, our contractor won’t return the dog to you until you’ve paid the following charges (which must be paid in full, not in installments):
* A statutory fee of £25.00; plus
* A variable fee relating to kenneling, veterinary or other essential animal health costs, and transportation to and from kennels and an owners house. This variable fee should be no more than £35 per day
* if an owner requires the return of their dog other than between 12 noon and 7pm there will be an additional charge of £30.00
If that isn’t a blank cheque then I don’t know what is!
I can’t believe that a local authority could make such a loose term in a contract to so much benefit to a private company.
Hi Gnasher
I only had the kennelling contract not the pick ups. My job was to care for the stray dogs for 7 days, in which time i would access/ interact and really get to know the dog before rehoming, Obviously home checking the new owners, if they werent reunited with their owners. Sometimes it would be obvious that the dog had an owner, and on at least a couple of occassions the dogs were reunited after 3wks or more. You get a gut feeling sometimes that the dog already has a good home its just a matter of waiting for them to find them.Although this doesnt make money,it is why i own a kennels, because i am here for the welfare of the dogs. I love a happy ending, which i hope and pray for,for Adrian.
It is difficult to give you a figure on PTS. I Only did The Rother area and we had to have 3 PTS.I think Hastings was about the same. You can get these figures from the councils. The rest of the info you requested is a bit more difficult. I think that under the freedom of information act you could get it all.
I hope this is helpful to you.
I think that every dog AW picks up brings major £££££££££ signs to Mr Dunnes eyes. If they dont get it from the fines he gets it from a back hander with the rehoming fee !!!!!!!!
Sorry not to have been back onto the comments over the weekend. Thank you for the following responses to my comment:
Posted by S. Pickering 9th May, 2008 at 7:39 am
To C. Jackson
Your first point;10/04/08 Kiss was picked up by a lady who works in the town hall, in Hastings. She phoned Animal wardens ltd. Dog picked up and collar removed by warden. Husky registered as a Husky at Animal Wardens HQ!.( CONFIRMED ON THE 22/04/08)when they knew Adrian had recieved a picture of kiss in viking oak kennels.
Second point: Have you ever tried to get a list from this company to show all dogs kept at kennels?. Ive been waiting 3 weeks!
Third point: Kiss looks almost like a pure breed. If the warden who is supposed to be a senior warden by the way, and who happened to have a trainee with him at the same time apparantly TRAINING him ( i use the term lightly)didnt know what a Husky looked like, then he shouldnt be doing the job.
As you say Adrian could have been invited to the local kennels , but unfortunately the local kennels is some 40miles away!. When he got there he would have seen a piece of paper on his kennels saying BOOKED.
Perhaps you would like to phone Animal Wardens ltd and ask them for their comments etc. Their response will be NO COMMENT believe me Mr Jackson try it!. O and if you speak with the council they tell you to phone animal wardens. Sweet isnt it and so heart felt. I truly believe that everyone at the council is hoping that this will go away. But its not going to anymore. This company is making a mockery out of everyone and rakeing in the money.
Your initial points S. are exactly what I want to hear - a clear, unemotional outline of evidence. If you don’t have that and don’t present it in exactly that way you will fail in the ultimate goal. Most important here - can you prove that BOOKED was on the kennel door of this dog before 7 days had elapsed as that definately suggests malpractice; no stray should be deemed “booked”. Lots of other excellent points but it’s not for me to prove them in this instance (I can only do that for what I am directly involved in).
I hope you get my drift - the council (Council’s) will not respond well to over emotional, anecdotal, outbursts - they will be terrified if it can be proved they have got themselves involved in malpractice.
Posted by Ian Merlin 9th May, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Amazing posts coming out about Animal Wardens Limited, how is it possible that a company with such an alleged track record can get away with this sort of carry on?
It is quite easy Ian it is an ALLEGED track record unless you have proved it: for the sake of the animals you must PROVE it effectively if the Councils of this country are not to be allowed to take the quick and easy answer (offered by Animal Wardens Ltd and others) to very serious probelms created by s68 of the Clean Neighbourhoods Act.
Posted by K . Robinson 10th May, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Just a short note in response to the C.Jackson posting.
I own a kennels in the Rother District Council area. I had the stray dog contract for this area for the last 2 years before Animal Wardens ltd took over. I would just like to comment on your points about never having had a kennel involved that wasnt accussed of theft/ vivisection etc. I dont recall any complaint or suspicion of theft ever happening or infact anything in the Hastings and Rother district of this nature, ever.
K. Robinson You have either been extremely fortunate or have not been listening to whispers about your kennels if they were involved in this work. You may have even treated such rumours with the comtempt they deserve and no longer recall them or perhaps even the people of hastings and Rother are too polite and nice to make them in the first place. Whichever it is my point is that there are allegations (made by people with an interest in discrediting ‘authorities’ they have a grudge against) and there are proven allegations - only evidence can establish that proof and differentiate the claims being made in such a way as to enable effective resolution of them.
I have exactly the same belief as the vast majority of the correspondents to this comment and if you look back in contributions to these K9 pages you will find that there is nothing here that I have not warned about. But we are now at the point of requiring proof and establishing facts. To me the most interesting point is that not only have this Council handed over the contract for the dog warden service to Animal Wardens but in doing so they appear to have decided that the public register of stray dogs required by the Environmental Protection Act may be kept by their contractor rather than locally and a copy of that register is not available to view as the law requires.
Essentialy had the register been properly kept Adrian would have been able to examine it (the point made about an 80 mile round trip to actually see the dog is also an interesting point as councils are having to contract further out of their areas to establish services and if they are keeping them so far away as to make visits impractical then perhaps it night be expected that they provide a local way of looking at dogs - even good quality photos).
These things need to be established as either legal requirements or good practice. the problem is that DEFRA did not provide appropriate guidance on any of this.
I think that there is an overwhelming case being built in Adrians favour, as I am sure his solicitor will know. But there is a lot more work to do and making generalisations, assumptions and anecdotes will not help.
Thanks for your answers K Robinson.
It is a real shame that this company Animal Wardens Limited does not use your kennels to hold dogs, they would at least be in the same county and close to where they were seized!
Hope Adrian gets to check the register of stray dogs at the town hall.
When this company had the contract for the Isle of Wight, they would have been pushed to seize dogs from other areas. They were surrounded by sea!
Maybe they should only be allowed to work on islands where there are no neighbours?
I would recommend Easter Island for a start for this lot!
Glad that Isle of Wight Council employed their own dog wardens again.
How did you fare at the Town Hall Adrian?
To C Jackson
I think that you are trying to offer a balanced viewpoint for the contributors but you must be able to see that allegations or fact or whatever is forming a pattern?
Why do councils around the country allow such shoddy service, for all the places that you do not hear any problems about, are these places providing an adequate level of service or do people not know about what is going on?
What is your opinion on those who work with dogs and stray dogs, do you think that there should be some kind of compulsory standard that should be reached?
Possibly through a combination of previous skills plus some aptitude tests that show whether a person is capable of doing this type of work it may raise the bar so to speak in relation to what type of person works in this field.
As for the comments on training carried out by this company, what is NVQ Exemption training when it is at home see the Animal Wardens Limited website for more information.
Has anybody got an update about how Adrian got on today?
As this incident has elicited such a response from all of us, perhaps you may be interested to know that if you join the Pet Owners Parliament, go to http://www.petparliament.com, you can join the current blog discussion about Animal Wardens Limited there.
When you join the P.O.P (it is free) you then get a single vote for issues and campaigns. You can also access a letter that you as a member can send to your local council to find out just what sort of stray dog service is operating in your area, maybe you will find that it is good or maybe it is bad?
You can also send confidential complaints at another area of the P.O.P about council dog warden services, these are investigated and compiled into a report.
As we are all like minded people, the P.O.P seems to be the best way to mobilise our opposition to poor service from councils.
On it we are all equal and we all get one vote!
to c.jackson
is there a protocol for getting a council to re instate dog wardens (as apart from animal wardens ltd) ? hastings seemed to have invested so much in acheiving such a good service before, ie good, dedicated and trained wardens, fully equiped vans etc and the local kennels used was excellent, i used them for my own dog, it is such a shame to see such a good working arangement go down the pan. any suggestions?
Well, I have been watching this thread with interest and must say I am not surprised. I have been an ‘in house’ dog warden for nearly 15 years and have two adjoining Boroughs under the control of Animal Wardens and can confirm they are an untrained, shoddy bunch. Yes, they have taken dogs out of my Borough and transported to their own kennels, yes, they are paid a fortune for their contracts, no, they don’t give value for money and yes, some of their activities have been very dodgy…but at the end of the day, we can demonize Animal Wardens as much as we like but isn’t it up to the individual authorities to make their own choices? are they not answerable on an individual basis for the actions of their service units? if the contract managers are brought to buck for employing a shoddy firm and ultimately answerable for service delivery, Animal Wardens will be frozen out. Perhaps we should be badgering the LA’s?? just a thought from one a little long in the tooth now….
I am so pleased that AW Ltd have finally been exposed for what they really are. I know a lot about this company and a lot of the things being written on this forum are correct.
I must also say that i own a kennels and know a couple of others who own kennels and have never heard of any rumours concerning vivesection. Not sure where thats come from!
keep the comments coming everyone, lets help Adrian get the result he needs.
Ex Plod-it is a reality that private companies taking on contracts like this are in it for one thing only, to make a profit.
I am a partner in a company that carries out dog warden services for councils. We continually strive to provide the best possible service to our customers and animal welfare is paramount. We try our best to reunite dogs and owners. your comments about being in the business for one thing only is rubbish. I’m not denying that We do make a profit from these services however it isn’t a big profit. We find that providing an excellent service provision and reuniting both dogs and owners is a reward in itself, so please do not tarnish other service providers with the same brush as the complete shower of s*** that go under the name of Animal Wardens Ltd.
I made my comment about Animal Wardens and Paul Dunne early on in this discussion, at this time I didnt realise that comments were also going to be made about vivisection, PTS, aggresive dogs etc.
I would now just like to add that for two years I have owned an ex Rother stray that vets had decided was to aggresive to be re-homed. The local kennels who had the dog (a tiny Jack Russell) persevered with him until a suitable owner came forward (myself). I have four children, at the time 3 teenagers and a 5 year old, all of who follow my rules when a new dog comes into my home. It was a fair enough comment by vets if they havent been involved with dog rehabilitation, luckily for ‘Buddy’ our local kennels saw something in him that vets hadnt and now two years on he is a really good boy and a pleasure to have as part of my family. Down on the beach or in the woods other dog walkers often comment on what a happy little chap he looks running around with a big grin on his face. If it hadnt been for this kennels ‘Buddy’ wouldnt have made it through the system. Also, even though I know hundreds of dog owners through my work in the Hastings and Rother areas, I have never heard any comments about the kennels being involved in vivisection or stealing dogs, our area is definately an area of dog lovers but obviously have better things to do with our lives than to make up untrue comments about the people in our area who dedicate their lives to making local dogs lives so much better.
I still cant believe that Adrian hasnt had Kiss returned, why is it taking so long? I have been making as many owners as possible, out on walks etc,aware of Adrians’ situation, hopefully no one else in our area will be put the same terrible experience as him…. we are all routing for you Adrian and really do wish you all the best.
oh a quick ps…. If anyone is having problems with their dog a very good ‘bible’ to own is… The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell, I pass round a ‘30 day’ version to anyone who is having problems with their dog,or should I say problems understanding their dog! The feedback has been extremely positive and has given owners a new insight into understanding their pets.
Hi Oldtimer (sounds like a line from a western movie!)
I dont think that we are demonizing Animal Wardens Limited, more like commenting on the way that they provide a completely rubbish service for top dollar whilst the incumbent and probably totally adequate and competent dog warden or animal welfare officers are reassigned or even made redundant.
What councils fall for is the way that they are told what they want to hear but they are never going to get that service. You are right that it is the fault of councils, but like everybody, for example if you get two cars, one costs £20,000 and the other £1,000 and they are exactly the same, you would buy the £1,000 wouldnt you!
Not defending Animal Wardens Limited, they truly are a nightmare and if it is not an insult to the Keystone Kops, they are less efficient and organised than them.
You say they operate on both sides of your borough, it must be testimony to you that your council has not taken the Animal Wardens Limited shilling and used them, unless the mistakes they make are well known to your council?
Working with dogs is not an unskilled job and as you know yourself, the role of dog warden is far more complex than employing an untrained person and telling them that they are now a ‘warden’.
To be a competent dog warden and to take on board all procedures and face almost every scenario that you can in the role must take a couple of years at least?
The reason that there are many incompetent Animal Wardens Limited employees dealing with stray dogs and obviously not being aware of such minor issues such as council area boundaries, is more than likely down to the fact that they receive no training and as others have written above, they are sent somewhere or perhaps they have too big an area to cover, they must not know whether they are coming or going.
Not feeling sorry for them, just angry that they get this exploited by a profit based company and the public in the areas they work end up getting an abysmal service. If all the above comments are to be amalgamated they show that there is something wrong with this company, probably before when they were more regional, people would not really hear of wrongdoing and incompetence on the part of this company as they were elsewhere in the country.
Now that they seem to have gone national they may have very well overstretched themselves by taking too much work on and not having enough employees (trained or untrained) it is now very apparent that Animal Wardens Limited is out of its league.
It sure does not do what exactly it says on its Animal Wardens Limited tin!
Florence
I think that the vivisection comment by C Jackson was made in the same way as an example such as when a persons dog strays from its home either accidentally or if its owner lets it out, then the dog is picked up by the council, it is always ‘taken away by the dog catcher’. The fact that the dog is taken out of a potentially dangerous situation for the dog or others is missed.
I know nothing about the Viking Kennels but some people on here seem to do, maybe they know more about what is going on?
Possibly C Jackson was pointing out how rumours can get out of hand?
Has anybody heard anything from Adrian about how he is getting on.
I am going to draw my posts on this issue here to a close with this one and hope that it will lead to further examination of all services under ServiceWatch on the Pet Owners Parliament.
A couple of comments to answer first: Anna you ask; “is there a protocol for getting a council to re instate dog wardens” and the answer is quite simply no. Many councils which have taken on Animal Wardens Ltd have eventually returned in house but many others have kept their services for many many years (this is usually due to the recruitment by AWs of a capable person to the role and credit should be given to that person for working for low pay and under pressure from company and council - but it does happen). Unfortunately accurate records of cases against Animal Wardens, other companies, and “in house” services, have not been kept in one place and it is that which ServiceWatch is designed to remedy.
What standards should these services be provided to? Well that’s another problem - nobody knows (I omit from this the knowledge of standards we might like them to work to). DEFRA have provided little or no guidance, there are no competency tests or official training courses, and anyone competent or trained in other areas will experience extreme frustration once working for a local authority where you will find a whole range of other issues arise which will difer from authority to authority and with every change of political colour or managing officer. Don’t forget the council officer given the duty to deal with stray dogs may well be an Environmental Health Officers with no knowledge or interest in dogs whatever (many of them see getting ‘dogs’ as a completly poison chalice).
The NDWA, with which I have worked for around 20 years has presented plenty of reputable material and often contributed to prevent others from making fools of themselves but we receive no credit for doing so and are less than popular - and all to often completely ignored. This included warning about the potential disaster of removing police from the reception of stray dogs and demanding that already overstretched local authorities provide that function alone.
One final point: I mentioned vivisection once, yet it has been taken up by at least two other contributors out of the context in which I used it. let me clarify, I know of two large kennels in the North West of England, the region in which I work. Both have been accused, by Chinese whispers, of sending stray dogs for vivisection by people, with various grudges (in which I include people who let genuine concerns about animal welfare grow into causes for ‘activism’). the rumours were started on the basis of large vehicles calling at the premises (allegedly removing dogs for vivisection). the truth was that in one instance the vehicle was removing the carcases of the animals put to sleep (and for those who feel sensitive to that it calls at hundreds of vets surgeries as well); in the other instance it was actually a vehicle used to take stray dogs to empty kennels in the South East of England because, at that time, the North had a surplus and the South a deficit of dogs for re-homing. Damaging allegations with no basis on what was actually happening. This illustration was used to show that councils hear all sorts of ‘rumours’ and in the North at least allegations of malpractice are common and commonly unfounded, although the South East sounds like a heaven in which such things never happen. It illustrates my main point that it is most important to record and present facts acurately without distorting them, even with genuine emotion, if you want to improve these services and avoid them deteriorating further. Councils and the governmemt department (DEFRA) will listen to real evidence.
Servicewatch sounds like a very good idea to keep an eye on councils.
Perhaps this unfortunate incident should be seen as the start of servicewatch and the raising of awareness that all is not well in the world of stray dogs in the UK.
How did Adrian get on at the town hall on Monday?
Is there any news on Kiss.
The amount of posts generated by this issue show that the dog owners of the UK will not put up with poor service when it comes to dealing with dogs.
I wonder whether the two councils involved will actually take any kind of remedial action to sort this contractor out to provide the residents of both areas a proper level of stray dog service.
Is there anybody from the Hastigs area who can give an update about how Adrian got on with his search/fight to get Kiss back?
Does anybody have any idea which part of the country Kiss has been taken to, or is she in the Kent or Sussex area?
C Jackson
Do you think that the councils and the DEFRA department will listen to real advice from ordinary people, if all these postings are anything to go by, this matter has certainly raised awareness that there are some poor companies out there if nothing else.
I note that elsewhere on this website an article explains that the Scottish government is referring, or at least putting a policy document written by yourself for NDWA on its library portal so that all Scottish MP’s can access it during a forthcoming debate on amending or introducing dangerous dog legislation in Scotland.
Has the UK government ever done a similar thing using NDWA experience, if not why not.
To Mr McCollin, good luck in your endeavours to get your dog back from this company.
To Gnasher
Kiss was taken to Viking oak Kennels in Borough green sevenoaks. Are you all on the pet parliament?, there are more discussions on this on there.
Adrian
Have you got any news about your visit to the town hall the other day?
Its all a bit strange because Adrian did post about the town hall visit.But its dissapeared. He said that he was told that they dont hold the register that Animal Wardens does now.
To R. Taylor
Thanks, the pet parliamnet site forum is very interesting and has some thought provoking comments.
Cheers
To R. Taylor
The webpage was offline for sometime last night, perhaps Adrians post was wiped off or something?
R Taylor
The law states that the officer appointed to deal with say dogs (this could be the chief executive or a director) has to maintain a register of stray dogs. In reality the actual handling of the dogs is via a dog warden or other delegated person.
How the flip can a member of the public in Hastings examine the register of stray dogs when it is in north west England!
Somebody at Hastings is breaking the law, go on the internet and look for section 149 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, it clearly states and legally requires the council to keep a register that is open to public inspection.
Maybe the council is going to fly people up to Manchester whenever they need to inspect this legal document.
Hastings council is losing the plot, somebody there is talking male cow faeces!
Adrian tell your legal team that the council is acting illegally by not having the register available.
Hi all
Just been speaking to Adrian. He is posting on here but things are not being posted up?. He has another appointment with solicitor on monday so fingers crossed that things will get moving. He is very hopeful!