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	<title>Comments on: Electric Collars are Not The Biggest Issue Facing Canine Welfare Today</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/</link>
	<description>by K9 Magazine, the lifestyle magazine for dog lovers</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: John Holliday</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3323</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holliday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3323</guid>
		<description>I have read some of the comments on your site with interest.  I have been supplying and using electronic collars in Australia for 13 years and have well over 100,000 customers. All of our products are sold on a money back guarantee and the returns are less than 2% so they are definitely working.

I notice that the opinions in the UK reflect the same nonsense that was put about in Australia some years back.  It got so bad here that our company took action in the Federal Court of Australia against the RSPCA for statements which we maintained were false and which harmed our business.  After two years of preparation and a two week hearing, the Court convicted the RSPCA of defamation and awarded our company damages.

With two years to prepare their case and two weeks for the hearing, the RSPCA could present no evidence to show that harm could be caused from the correct use of an electronic collar.  If anyone is interested they can read the Court's Judgement at http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2002/860.html?query=orion%20pet

We operate our business with the confidence that we do not harm dogs, but in fact we save dog's lives. During the course of our business we have saved thousands of dogs from euthanasia and worse.

Regards

John Holliday
Innotek Australia Pty Ltd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read some of the comments on your site with interest.  I have been supplying and using electronic collars in Australia for 13 years and have well over 100,000 customers. All of our products are sold on a money back guarantee and the returns are less than 2% so they are definitely working.</p>
<p>I notice that the opinions in the UK reflect the same nonsense that was put about in Australia some years back.  It got so bad here that our company took action in the Federal Court of Australia against the RSPCA for statements which we maintained were false and which harmed our business.  After two years of preparation and a two week hearing, the Court convicted the RSPCA of defamation and awarded our company damages.</p>
<p>With two years to prepare their case and two weeks for the hearing, the RSPCA could present no evidence to show that harm could be caused from the correct use of an electronic collar.  If anyone is interested they can read the Court&#8217;s Judgement at <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2002/860.html?query=orion%20pet" rel="nofollow">http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2002/860.html?query=orion%20pet</a></p>
<p>We operate our business with the confidence that we do not harm dogs, but in fact we save dog&#8217;s lives. During the course of our business we have saved thousands of dogs from euthanasia and worse.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>John Holliday<br />
Innotek Australia Pty Ltd</p>
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		<title>By: Alan J Butcher</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3185</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan J Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3185</guid>
		<description>Your comments on the KC, and its grand delusions, could not have been better, nor more eloquently stated. It is a self-serving organisation and clearly run by bigots for bigots... and for others who are foolish enough to believe the KC is the de facto UK authority on dogs. Whereas, in reality, it is no more than a register of breeds and ever degenerating bloodlines for the self-professed 'elite' of mutilating breeders. What else does it do for mankind, animal-kind or even canine-kind? Even some of its own 'thinking' members are embarrassed by its high-minded antics. Do its Articles of Association encompass these newly assumed interests?

As regards the KC's quest to ban the Remote Trainer, it is using a very small number of so called dissenters (including MPs whose motivation has nothing to do with animal welfare if it does not translate into votes) to dash the hopes of over a hundred thousand, well-informed, actual users. I hold a file of over 500 genuine user letters (all necessarily coded for security purposes), the contents of which would be available to you on request. They make very interesting reading. 

One can only believe the KC's main purpose in this area is to create a smoke-screen to disguise its own significant failures and misdemeanours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comments on the KC, and its grand delusions, could not have been better, nor more eloquently stated. It is a self-serving organisation and clearly run by bigots for bigots&#8230; and for others who are foolish enough to believe the KC is the de facto UK authority on dogs. Whereas, in reality, it is no more than a register of breeds and ever degenerating bloodlines for the self-professed &#8216;elite&#8217; of mutilating breeders. What else does it do for mankind, animal-kind or even canine-kind? Even some of its own &#8216;thinking&#8217; members are embarrassed by its high-minded antics. Do its Articles of Association encompass these newly assumed interests?</p>
<p>As regards the KC&#8217;s quest to ban the Remote Trainer, it is using a very small number of so called dissenters (including MPs whose motivation has nothing to do with animal welfare if it does not translate into votes) to dash the hopes of over a hundred thousand, well-informed, actual users. I hold a file of over 500 genuine user letters (all necessarily coded for security purposes), the contents of which would be available to you on request. They make very interesting reading. </p>
<p>One can only believe the KC&#8217;s main purpose in this area is to create a smoke-screen to disguise its own significant failures and misdemeanours.</p>
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		<title>By: Jtilly.Exmoore</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3176</link>
		<dc:creator>Jtilly.Exmoore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3176</guid>
		<description>Just seen a link to this article. What can I say, brilliant. Many of us dog lovers have known for years that dogs are in a state of decline. You only have to spend some time in a vets to see it with your own eyes. If we're talking about animal welfare priorities how about we START by looking at those who've allowed dogs to get into the state they're in now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just seen a link to this article. What can I say, brilliant. Many of us dog lovers have known for years that dogs are in a state of decline. You only have to spend some time in a vets to see it with your own eyes. If we&#8217;re talking about animal welfare priorities how about we START by looking at those who&#8217;ve allowed dogs to get into the state they&#8217;re in now?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam in Stoke on Trent</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3175</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam in Stoke on Trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3175</guid>
		<description>Wow. Say what you really think!!!

As it happens I agree with just about every word. I'm certainly no great fan of electric collars but I totally and utterly agree that the kennel club is in no position at all to be preaching about animal welfare. I've written letters to the BBC before about Crufts and why it promotes such a mediocre view of what dog ownership is all about. Health, health, health. That's all that should matter. Health and function to be more honest. How many breeds have not only lost on semblance of health as well as a complete breakdown in being able to perform even basic functions?

I am surprised but highly delighted that a mainstream pet magazine has been bold enough to raise this issue. Big congratulations</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Say what you really think!!!</p>
<p>As it happens I agree with just about every word. I&#8217;m certainly no great fan of electric collars but I totally and utterly agree that the kennel club is in no position at all to be preaching about animal welfare. I&#8217;ve written letters to the BBC before about Crufts and why it promotes such a mediocre view of what dog ownership is all about. Health, health, health. That&#8217;s all that should matter. Health and function to be more honest. How many breeds have not only lost on semblance of health as well as a complete breakdown in being able to perform even basic functions?</p>
<p>I am surprised but highly delighted that a mainstream pet magazine has been bold enough to raise this issue. Big congratulations</p>
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		<title>By: Pedigree Dog Owner</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3172</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedigree Dog Owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3172</guid>
		<description>I agree with the thrust of the article. Is the KC just a pedigree dog register run by it's members or is it an animal welfare organisation - they really need to decide.

If they are campaignig for animal welfare then they need to sort out the issues with pedigree breed health first. Other pressing issues include the DDA, puppy farms, inadequate sentencing guidelines for animal abuse etc.

If they are just a register, even then they need to toughen up their criteria for what they will register. They need to insist on health clearances and breed suitability tests before breeding.

As for e-collars, like them or not, many myths are perpetuated. They have not caused death by being left on or due to EMF. Additionally, they can be used on any size or shape of dog - if a dog is not able to wear an e-collar, it is not able to wear any collar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the thrust of the article. Is the KC just a pedigree dog register run by it&#8217;s members or is it an animal welfare organisation - they really need to decide.</p>
<p>If they are campaignig for animal welfare then they need to sort out the issues with pedigree breed health first. Other pressing issues include the DDA, puppy farms, inadequate sentencing guidelines for animal abuse etc.</p>
<p>If they are just a register, even then they need to toughen up their criteria for what they will register. They need to insist on health clearances and breed suitability tests before breeding.</p>
<p>As for e-collars, like them or not, many myths are perpetuated. They have not caused death by being left on or due to EMF. Additionally, they can be used on any size or shape of dog - if a dog is not able to wear an e-collar, it is not able to wear any collar.</p>
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		<title>By: Pauline Baines</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3157</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauline Baines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3157</guid>
		<description>As I understand from information received from Australia, deaths have resulted from using electric shock collars when the collar has not been removed.  The collars it seems have been activated by electrical equipment such as drills. They are not recommended for use on dogs with likely breathing problems or of thin skeletal shape such as Greyhounds which must be an indication that they are not totally safe.
     Regarding health of pedigree dogs I would concur that in the past century cosmetics have overtaken form and have overlooked health issues.  I don't think it can be said that earlier dogs were healthier than those of today as no statistics are available; they certainly may have looked different and anatomically improved in the case of breeds such as Bassets and the Pekinese where the muzzle was definitely extended into a snout.  Many breeds were seriously depleted as a result of World War II and stocks had to be re-built by sometimes  mixing breeds or inter-breeding.  
   There is no proof that mongrels are healthier as the breeds they have been crossed from may be carriers of genetic health disorders.  Statistics are not available whereas they are for many of the "pedigree" breeds. RESPONSIBLE breeders will be aware of the health issues in their breeds and will be endeavouring to eradicate the problems (e.g. the excellent Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier Health Initiative).  However the KC are unable to control all breeders and there are many who seem to perpetuate the myth that a bitch should have at least one litter but have no idea about  the genetics of their breed nor what they should be achieving to keep it looking  close to the breed standard (which in many cases  -not all - was derived decades ago by the original breed clubs.  Neither are they concerned about the homes to which they sell their litter(s) or the health tests their breeds should have undergone before mating (these latter being slowly introduced voluntarily by the KC or made compulsory gradually for KC accredited breeders.
There are so many controversial issues together with those that are treated by apathy within dog ownership and breeding  fraternity.  There will be a long hard road ahead if consensus is to be achieved by all dog owners on the way to go forward; more likely legislation will overtake the   predicted procrastination!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I understand from information received from Australia, deaths have resulted from using electric shock collars when the collar has not been removed.  The collars it seems have been activated by electrical equipment such as drills. They are not recommended for use on dogs with likely breathing problems or of thin skeletal shape such as Greyhounds which must be an indication that they are not totally safe.<br />
     Regarding health of pedigree dogs I would concur that in the past century cosmetics have overtaken form and have overlooked health issues.  I don&#8217;t think it can be said that earlier dogs were healthier than those of today as no statistics are available; they certainly may have looked different and anatomically improved in the case of breeds such as Bassets and the Pekinese where the muzzle was definitely extended into a snout.  Many breeds were seriously depleted as a result of World War II and stocks had to be re-built by sometimes  mixing breeds or inter-breeding.<br />
   There is no proof that mongrels are healthier as the breeds they have been crossed from may be carriers of genetic health disorders.  Statistics are not available whereas they are for many of the &#8220;pedigree&#8221; breeds. RESPONSIBLE breeders will be aware of the health issues in their breeds and will be endeavouring to eradicate the problems (e.g. the excellent Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier Health Initiative).  However the KC are unable to control all breeders and there are many who seem to perpetuate the myth that a bitch should have at least one litter but have no idea about  the genetics of their breed nor what they should be achieving to keep it looking  close to the breed standard (which in many cases  -not all - was derived decades ago by the original breed clubs.  Neither are they concerned about the homes to which they sell their litter(s) or the health tests their breeds should have undergone before mating (these latter being slowly introduced voluntarily by the KC or made compulsory gradually for KC accredited breeders.<br />
There are so many controversial issues together with those that are treated by apathy within dog ownership and breeding  fraternity.  There will be a long hard road ahead if consensus is to be achieved by all dog owners on the way to go forward; more likely legislation will overtake the   predicted procrastination!</p>
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		<title>By: CrazyCanine</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3148</link>
		<dc:creator>CrazyCanine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3148</guid>
		<description>Well done K9 Magazine for taking a stand against an elitist, self serving organisation.  They are totally unelected and have no statutory powers, so why for one thing are they currently telling/'advising' councils how to do their jobs (in relation to dog control orders?)  If all dog owners acted responsibly all the time, be it clearing up after their dogs, ensuring that their dogs do not stray and also ensuring that their dogs are properly trained (and the owners know what they are doing too!) there would be no need for councils to have to use this legislation.  What is irritating is that the Kennel Club through its political lobbying probably had some say in various legislation that is now seen to be unpopular, the Dangerous Dogs Act being the most unpopular!  So what do they do, they simply go with the flow and end up criticising something they more than likely had input to.

The frightening thing is that there are a lot of unelected 'experts' be it 'one person bands' or those working for unelected organisations that seem to think it is their god given right to tell the government how dog owners should be legislated against.  One minute they merrily follow the government line, then when the tide turns, they all scurry to be at the front of the queue to denounce the latest government decision.

Fiona is dead right regarding the changing look of dogs, an example being Bassett Hounds, there are two types, the KC type that seems to be an exact copy of the cartoon 'Fred Bassett' with low slung body and stubby legs, then there is the hunting Bassett Hound, that looks like a dog, is well built and seems to have different legs?  In fact the hunting version look like Foxhounds with their legs chopped off but they can shift across country and they look like a dog that is not bogged down with future medical problems.

I totally agree with K9 Magazine that the Kennel Club needs to get its own house in order before it 'lobbies' for various changes elsewhere, also if the various types of E-collar are so bad, why are they on sale all over the world?

The time for self serving, elitist 'establishment' type organisations is well over, concentrate on restoring dogs to their original breed standards and not to some cosmetic type pleasing to the eye before wasting time and resources on campaigns that half a dozen similar organisations are simultaneously wasting their money on!

Would the Kennel Club have stood up for American Pit Bull Terriers pre 1990 if their owners had been seen as 'KC types' or the dogs were included in the KC breed register?  It would have been an interesting time if more middle class people had owned them, maybe they would not have been banned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done K9 Magazine for taking a stand against an elitist, self serving organisation.  They are totally unelected and have no statutory powers, so why for one thing are they currently telling/&#8217;advising&#8217; councils how to do their jobs (in relation to dog control orders?)  If all dog owners acted responsibly all the time, be it clearing up after their dogs, ensuring that their dogs do not stray and also ensuring that their dogs are properly trained (and the owners know what they are doing too!) there would be no need for councils to have to use this legislation.  What is irritating is that the Kennel Club through its political lobbying probably had some say in various legislation that is now seen to be unpopular, the Dangerous Dogs Act being the most unpopular!  So what do they do, they simply go with the flow and end up criticising something they more than likely had input to.</p>
<p>The frightening thing is that there are a lot of unelected &#8216;experts&#8217; be it &#8216;one person bands&#8217; or those working for unelected organisations that seem to think it is their god given right to tell the government how dog owners should be legislated against.  One minute they merrily follow the government line, then when the tide turns, they all scurry to be at the front of the queue to denounce the latest government decision.</p>
<p>Fiona is dead right regarding the changing look of dogs, an example being Bassett Hounds, there are two types, the KC type that seems to be an exact copy of the cartoon &#8216;Fred Bassett&#8217; with low slung body and stubby legs, then there is the hunting Bassett Hound, that looks like a dog, is well built and seems to have different legs?  In fact the hunting version look like Foxhounds with their legs chopped off but they can shift across country and they look like a dog that is not bogged down with future medical problems.</p>
<p>I totally agree with K9 Magazine that the Kennel Club needs to get its own house in order before it &#8216;lobbies&#8217; for various changes elsewhere, also if the various types of E-collar are so bad, why are they on sale all over the world?</p>
<p>The time for self serving, elitist &#8216;establishment&#8217; type organisations is well over, concentrate on restoring dogs to their original breed standards and not to some cosmetic type pleasing to the eye before wasting time and resources on campaigns that half a dozen similar organisations are simultaneously wasting their money on!</p>
<p>Would the Kennel Club have stood up for American Pit Bull Terriers pre 1990 if their owners had been seen as &#8216;KC types&#8217; or the dogs were included in the KC breed register?  It would have been an interesting time if more middle class people had owned them, maybe they would not have been banned?</p>
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		<title>By: Fiona Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/289/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3146</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiona Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/electric-collar-consultation-in-wales-nears-conclusion/#comment-3146</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with the stand you are taking.

To really understand how many dog breeds have been breed with little or no regard for their health, a visit to the Rothchild museum in Tring, Hertfordshire is a must.

Dog owners from the past hundred years have donated their pets bodies to be sensitively preserved. It is amazingly sad to see what changes have been forced upon our 'best friends' over the years.  In the museum you can see bull dogs with longer legs, slimmer bodies and - vitally- un squashed muzzles. Pekinese dogs, again with 'normal' legs who didn't suffer the terrible back problems afflicting their modern day counter parts, nor their breathing problems.

I believe some enlightened breeders are trying to breed back some breeds to their natural state.  I hope they succeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with the stand you are taking.</p>
<p>To really understand how many dog breeds have been breed with little or no regard for their health, a visit to the Rothchild museum in Tring, Hertfordshire is a must.</p>
<p>Dog owners from the past hundred years have donated their pets bodies to be sensitively preserved. It is amazingly sad to see what changes have been forced upon our &#8216;best friends&#8217; over the years.  In the museum you can see bull dogs with longer legs, slimmer bodies and - vitally- un squashed muzzles. Pekinese dogs, again with &#8216;normal&#8217; legs who didn&#8217;t suffer the terrible back problems afflicting their modern day counter parts, nor their breathing problems.</p>
<p>I believe some enlightened breeders are trying to breed back some breeds to their natural state.  I hope they succeed.</p>
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