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	<title>Comments on: Pedigree Withdraws Crufts Sponsorship</title>
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	<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/</link>
	<description>the lifestyle magazine for dog lovers</description>
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		<title>By: moppetswood</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23991</link>
		<dc:creator>moppetswood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23991</guid>
		<description>Sorry Branwen but your post demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge regarding the KC, dog breeding and dog showing, unfortunately this is not uncommon amongst the general public as has been shown on message boards up and down the country in the last few months.

You wrote

&quot;Imagine a pedigree cairn terier born of a bitch whose registration lapsed a long time ago.&quot;

Registration cannot lapse, there are numerous reasons why a bitches puppies may not be able to be registered, not least that the KC won&#039;t allow puppies to be registered from a bitch under one year, over 8 years (without special permission), one that has had more than 6 litters etc etc, these rules were brought in for the welfare of bitches. Many puppy farmers and back yard breeders will make statements such as this to avoid telling puppy buyers the truth.

&quot;Beautiful specimen of the breed as good if not better than any champion.&quot;

By who&#039;s opinion? We all have &#039;Champions&#039; at home.

&quot;Cannot be judged due to the lack of a kennel club registration.&quot;

Well yes those are the rules but can still be shown at Companion Shows.

&quot;May not even be bred from under the kenel club act whereby only registered KC breeders could breed or sell dogs.

What Kennel Club Act would that be? I think that that is what the KC are going to try and introduce but it is probably unlikely they will succeed. Anyone can register a litter of puppies at present as long as they have details of a KC registered dog and bitch and the owners of said dogs claim a mating took place. Other dogs yes even crossbreeds can be registered on the KC Activity Register. If your bitch isn&#039;t registered and you possibly don&#039;t have the pedigree, how can you research the breeding before breeding a litter for example health problems, temperament, genetics etc?

&quot;Are the kennel club elitists of course they are.&quot;

Not elitist just responsible and if you are so against the KC why didn&#039;t you just mate the bitch anyway? Why did you need to register the puppies? In my opinion not responsible but thats what so many people do.

&quot;yes allow scrufts and open it up to allow non registered dogs to take on the registered ones.
then see who wins&quot;

I have always considered Scrufts to be for the true crossbreed and mongrel mutley not for a pedigree dog that for whatever reason can not be registered. As stated above if you want to show your dog then there are hundreds of Companion Shows where you can take on the Pedigrees. Good Luck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Branwen but your post demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge regarding the KC, dog breeding and dog showing, unfortunately this is not uncommon amongst the general public as has been shown on message boards up and down the country in the last few months.</p>
<p>You wrote</p>
<p>&#8220;Imagine a pedigree cairn terier born of a bitch whose registration lapsed a long time ago.&#8221;</p>
<p>Registration cannot lapse, there are numerous reasons why a bitches puppies may not be able to be registered, not least that the KC won&#8217;t allow puppies to be registered from a bitch under one year, over 8 years (without special permission), one that has had more than 6 litters etc etc, these rules were brought in for the welfare of bitches. Many puppy farmers and back yard breeders will make statements such as this to avoid telling puppy buyers the truth.</p>
<p>&#8220;Beautiful specimen of the breed as good if not better than any champion.&#8221;</p>
<p>By who&#8217;s opinion? We all have &#8216;Champions&#8217; at home.</p>
<p>&#8220;Cannot be judged due to the lack of a kennel club registration.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well yes those are the rules but can still be shown at Companion Shows.</p>
<p>&#8220;May not even be bred from under the kenel club act whereby only registered KC breeders could breed or sell dogs.</p>
<p>What Kennel Club Act would that be? I think that that is what the KC are going to try and introduce but it is probably unlikely they will succeed. Anyone can register a litter of puppies at present as long as they have details of a KC registered dog and bitch and the owners of said dogs claim a mating took place. Other dogs yes even crossbreeds can be registered on the KC Activity Register. If your bitch isn&#8217;t registered and you possibly don&#8217;t have the pedigree, how can you research the breeding before breeding a litter for example health problems, temperament, genetics etc?</p>
<p>&#8220;Are the kennel club elitists of course they are.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not elitist just responsible and if you are so against the KC why didn&#8217;t you just mate the bitch anyway? Why did you need to register the puppies? In my opinion not responsible but thats what so many people do.</p>
<p>&#8220;yes allow scrufts and open it up to allow non registered dogs to take on the registered ones.<br />
then see who wins&#8221;</p>
<p>I have always considered Scrufts to be for the true crossbreed and mongrel mutley not for a pedigree dog that for whatever reason can not be registered. As stated above if you want to show your dog then there are hundreds of Companion Shows where you can take on the Pedigrees. Good Luck</p>
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		<title>By: Branwen</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23974</link>
		<dc:creator>Branwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23974</guid>
		<description>Crufts and the Kennel Club
Imagine a pedigree cairn terier born of a bitch whose registration lapsed a long time ago.
Beautiful specimen of the breed as good if not better than any champion.
Cannot be judged due to the lack of a kennel club registration.
May not even be bred from under the kenel club act whereby only registered KC breeders could breed or sell dogs.
Are the kennel club elitists of course they are.
yes allow scrufts and open it up to allow non registered dogs to take on the registered ones.
 then see who wins</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crufts and the Kennel Club<br />
Imagine a pedigree cairn terier born of a bitch whose registration lapsed a long time ago.<br />
Beautiful specimen of the breed as good if not better than any champion.<br />
Cannot be judged due to the lack of a kennel club registration.<br />
May not even be bred from under the kenel club act whereby only registered KC breeders could breed or sell dogs.<br />
Are the kennel club elitists of course they are.<br />
yes allow scrufts and open it up to allow non registered dogs to take on the registered ones.<br />
 then see who wins</p>
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		<title>By: Dogs Trust</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23966</link>
		<dc:creator>Dogs Trust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23966</guid>
		<description>“With the announcement that Pedigree is no longer sponsoring Crufts, many newspapers and online forums reported the news this weekend. You may have incorrectly read that the Kennel Club is working with Dogs Trust to review breeding standards for 209 species of pedigree dogs. Dogs Trust has no involvement with the review of breed standards which is currently underway; this is something the Kennel Club is conducting independently. 

 

Although Dogs Trust has withdrawn from Crufts and Discover Dogs, we are firmly committed to ensuring that changes are now made to safeguard the health and wellbeing of dogs. This is why we have been in regular dialogue with the Kennel Club and have jointly called for Government support for a review into the breeding, registration and showing of all dogs. Timings and full details for this review have not yet been confirmed. We will be able to update our supporters about this review shortly.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“With the announcement that Pedigree is no longer sponsoring Crufts, many newspapers and online forums reported the news this weekend. You may have incorrectly read that the Kennel Club is working with Dogs Trust to review breeding standards for 209 species of pedigree dogs. Dogs Trust has no involvement with the review of breed standards which is currently underway; this is something the Kennel Club is conducting independently. </p>
<p>Although Dogs Trust has withdrawn from Crufts and Discover Dogs, we are firmly committed to ensuring that changes are now made to safeguard the health and wellbeing of dogs. This is why we have been in regular dialogue with the Kennel Club and have jointly called for Government support for a review into the breeding, registration and showing of all dogs. Timings and full details for this review have not yet been confirmed. We will be able to update our supporters about this review shortly.”</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan O'Meara</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan O'Meara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23865</guid>
		<description>Yes £500k x 3 years = £1.5m, please see
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pedigree+%C2%A31.5m&amp;sourceid=navclient-ff&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;rlz=1B3DVFA_enGB226GB230</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes £500k x 3 years = £1.5m, please see<br />
<a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pedigree+%C2%A31.5m&#038;sourceid=navclient-ff&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;rlz=1B3DVFA_enGB226GB230" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pedigree+%C2%A31.5m&#038;sourceid=navclient-ff&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;rlz=1B3DVFA_enGB226GB230</a></p>
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		<title>By: moppetswood</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23863</link>
		<dc:creator>moppetswood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23863</guid>
		<description>OK

That may have been a question but the implication reamains whether from you or the Guardian.

I see that the Guardian also states £500,000 but what&#039;s a million between friends?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK</p>
<p>That may have been a question but the implication reamains whether from you or the Guardian.</p>
<p>I see that the Guardian also states £500,000 but what&#8217;s a million between friends?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan O'Meara</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23860</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan O'Meara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23860</guid>
		<description>That is not implication. It is a perfectly logical and justified question. So much so in fact, please see how the Guardian reported it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/25/animal-welfare-crufts-advertising-pedigree

&quot;A spokeswoman for manufacturer Mars refused to say whether the documentary row had influenced its decision to pull out of Crufts&quot;

We report on dog related issues. When the brand that has been associated with Crufts for more than 40 years pulls out, very suddenly and very publicly, within just a few months of a major documentary about the state of pedigree dogs which has also lead to other high profile withdrawals due to the documentary then it goes without saying we are entitled to ask the company about that. We do not exist to blindly follow the press releases of organisations, be they the KC or Mars. We ask questions. In this case, the company chose not to comment. Had they done so, no speculation would even be occurring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is not implication. It is a perfectly logical and justified question. So much so in fact, please see how the Guardian reported it:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/25/animal-welfare-crufts-advertising-pedigree" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/25/animal-welfare-crufts-advertising-pedigree</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A spokeswoman for manufacturer Mars refused to say whether the documentary row had influenced its decision to pull out of Crufts&#8221;</p>
<p>We report on dog related issues. When the brand that has been associated with Crufts for more than 40 years pulls out, very suddenly and very publicly, within just a few months of a major documentary about the state of pedigree dogs which has also lead to other high profile withdrawals due to the documentary then it goes without saying we are entitled to ask the company about that. We do not exist to blindly follow the press releases of organisations, be they the KC or Mars. We ask questions. In this case, the company chose not to comment. Had they done so, no speculation would even be occurring.</p>
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		<title>By: moppetswood</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23859</link>
		<dc:creator>moppetswood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23859</guid>
		<description>The media has speculated the sum of £1.5 million, other suggestions have been £500,000. Only the relevant parties know the true figures involved.

I was implying it may have something to do with the current economic climate as you were finding it difficult to believe that such a change of direction could have occured in the space of 4 weeks, but what a 4 weeks it has been.

I&#039;m sure that Mars as the &#039;parent&#039; company has some say in how its individual business units are run.

I have already responded to the statement regarding &#039;Principle Sponsor&#039;, as they were the first and at one time only sponsor of Crufts, Pedigree were reluctant to let others get involved, it has always been a question of &#039;if you want our money you do what we say&#039;. Last year Pedigree tried to force shows to only let exhibitors that fed their products exclusively to enter their Stakes classes at shows, this didn&#039;t work so they cancelled their sponsorship of the Champion and Veteran Stakes.

They were the &#039;Principle Sponsor&#039; because that was what they insisted they were called.

No implication?

You wrote
&quot;A Mars spokesperson would not comment on whether the decision was based around the documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed.

That may have been a statement but the implication was clearly there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The media has speculated the sum of £1.5 million, other suggestions have been £500,000. Only the relevant parties know the true figures involved.</p>
<p>I was implying it may have something to do with the current economic climate as you were finding it difficult to believe that such a change of direction could have occured in the space of 4 weeks, but what a 4 weeks it has been.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that Mars as the &#8216;parent&#8217; company has some say in how its individual business units are run.</p>
<p>I have already responded to the statement regarding &#8216;Principle Sponsor&#8217;, as they were the first and at one time only sponsor of Crufts, Pedigree were reluctant to let others get involved, it has always been a question of &#8216;if you want our money you do what we say&#8217;. Last year Pedigree tried to force shows to only let exhibitors that fed their products exclusively to enter their Stakes classes at shows, this didn&#8217;t work so they cancelled their sponsorship of the Champion and Veteran Stakes.</p>
<p>They were the &#8216;Principle Sponsor&#8217; because that was what they insisted they were called.</p>
<p>No implication?</p>
<p>You wrote<br />
&#8220;A Mars spokesperson would not comment on whether the decision was based around the documentary Pedigree Dogs Exposed.</p>
<p>That may have been a statement but the implication was clearly there.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Clinton</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23857</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Clinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23857</guid>
		<description>Hello Moppetswood

Surely of the 300 odd other trade stands remaining at Crufts 2009 as you speculate in your response to my observation above, some may decide to not attend as well?

Perhaps some of the 300 may decide that they do not want to risk their brand being associated with Crufts 2009 because of the possible adverse effect on their product(s)?

Many of the stands at Crufts are specifically aimed at show dog owners and breeders anyway and there are plenty of stands that have only a passing association with matters canine. The many clothing stands, antique stands although they are naturally showing their canine &#039;objet d&#039;art&#039; at Crufts and automobile stands that offer a generic car make to name but a small selection.

Naturally a large turnout of the general public would be beneficial to those standholders who have paid a lot of money to have a stall at the show, will there be a large turnout at Crufts 2009?

As you may note from your own posts on this website, Crufts 2009 and the Kennel club is not going to go and lay doggo (pardon the pun), if anything it seems to be building up to a new level and is most certainly not going to blow over and be forgotten, is that because of the genuine outrage from ordinary members of the public such as myself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Moppetswood</p>
<p>Surely of the 300 odd other trade stands remaining at Crufts 2009 as you speculate in your response to my observation above, some may decide to not attend as well?</p>
<p>Perhaps some of the 300 may decide that they do not want to risk their brand being associated with Crufts 2009 because of the possible adverse effect on their product(s)?</p>
<p>Many of the stands at Crufts are specifically aimed at show dog owners and breeders anyway and there are plenty of stands that have only a passing association with matters canine. The many clothing stands, antique stands although they are naturally showing their canine &#8216;objet d&#8217;art&#8217; at Crufts and automobile stands that offer a generic car make to name but a small selection.</p>
<p>Naturally a large turnout of the general public would be beneficial to those standholders who have paid a lot of money to have a stall at the show, will there be a large turnout at Crufts 2009?</p>
<p>As you may note from your own posts on this website, Crufts 2009 and the Kennel club is not going to go and lay doggo (pardon the pun), if anything it seems to be building up to a new level and is most certainly not going to blow over and be forgotten, is that because of the genuine outrage from ordinary members of the public such as myself?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan O'Meara</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23855</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan O'Meara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23855</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re making a number of errors. Mars is the group owner of those brands. Those brands are individual business units and can make their decisions as they please. They were also not the principle sponsor of Crufts and therefore in no position to withdraw a £1.5m contract.

If you are suggesting this decision is credit crunch based - now it is YOU who is implying something which the company has not stated or even hinted at. If you have a contract and withdraw from it, you need good reason. Pedigree obviously have their reasons for wanting to disassociate with Crufts with immediate effect and they have issued their reasons. They have been asked whether it has anything to do with the documentary and they have refused to confirm or deny. Up to them. Makes no odds to me. But you will find in the initial report which you claimed was ill &#039;researched&#039; that there is NO implication and the information it contains was provided by the company themselves. Pedigree HAVE withdrawn their sponsorship of Crufts and it HAS come at a time when other large organisations have publicly disassociated with the event. These are facts not implied speculation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re making a number of errors. Mars is the group owner of those brands. Those brands are individual business units and can make their decisions as they please. They were also not the principle sponsor of Crufts and therefore in no position to withdraw a £1.5m contract.</p>
<p>If you are suggesting this decision is credit crunch based &#8211; now it is YOU who is implying something which the company has not stated or even hinted at. If you have a contract and withdraw from it, you need good reason. Pedigree obviously have their reasons for wanting to disassociate with Crufts with immediate effect and they have issued their reasons. They have been asked whether it has anything to do with the documentary and they have refused to confirm or deny. Up to them. Makes no odds to me. But you will find in the initial report which you claimed was ill &#8216;researched&#8217; that there is NO implication and the information it contains was provided by the company themselves. Pedigree HAVE withdrawn their sponsorship of Crufts and it HAS come at a time when other large organisations have publicly disassociated with the event. These are facts not implied speculation.</p>
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		<title>By: moppetswood</title>
		<link>http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/1123/pedigree-withdraws-crufts-sponsorship/#comment-23854</link>
		<dc:creator>moppetswood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogmagazine.net/?p=1123#comment-23854</guid>
		<description>So why not withdraw Royal Canin, James Welbeloved and Nutro?

You state
&quot;Besides, if Pedigree were - one month ago - having no plans to withdraw, we are expected to believe that the brand has made such a large, radical and very public move in the space of 4 weeks?&quot;

With the current economic climate and everything that has happened in the world of finance in the last 4 weeks alone yes I can believe that that is entirely possible. We are all having to take extreme measures, have you heard of the Credit Crunch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why not withdraw Royal Canin, James Welbeloved and Nutro?</p>
<p>You state<br />
&#8220;Besides, if Pedigree were &#8211; one month ago &#8211; having no plans to withdraw, we are expected to believe that the brand has made such a large, radical and very public move in the space of 4 weeks?&#8221;</p>
<p>With the current economic climate and everything that has happened in the world of finance in the last 4 weeks alone yes I can believe that that is entirely possible. We are all having to take extreme measures, have you heard of the Credit Crunch?</p>
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