Shock and Outrage as Dog Fatally Injured Live on TV
A greyhound protection group was inundated with calls from concerned viewers after a dog was fatally
injured at Belle Vue Stadium during a race broadcast live by Sky Sports.
The greyhound, a 2 year old male, called Frisby Foreman, fell badly during the 8pm race last Tuesday
and was carried from the track in agony.
After receiving dozens of calls from viewers, Greyhound Action investigated the incident and has now
learned that the dog, who was racing for the first time at Belle Vue, sustained a broken shoulder
and was subsequently “put down” by a vet.
Following the incident, the group has renewed it’s calls for an end to greyhound racing at Belle Vue
and for the public to totally boycott the dog racing industry.
Greyhound Action’s UK Co-ordinator, Tony Peters, said: “Last Tuesday evening our office received
dozens of calls from people who’d been watching the greyhound racing on Sky Sports and were shocked
at seeing a dog fall very badly during the 8pm race at Belle Vue.
“We immediately contacted one of our investigators, who has discovered that the greyhound, a 2 year
old male, called Frisby Foreman, broke his shoulder as a result of the fall, was carried from the
track in agony and was subsequently ‘put down’ by a vet.
“Sadly, such horrific injuries to racing greyhounds are all too common and we are often contacted by
members of the public who have witnessed them.
“Thousands of injuries to racing greyhounds occur every year, many of them serious. The main reason
for this is that the shape of the tracks, with fast straights leading into tight bends, creates a
very dangerous environment for dogs to run in.
“Because track owners fear they will lose money through racing being called off, races are quite
often run in unsuitable conditions, which increase the risk of injuries to the dogs. This appears to
have been the case last Tuesday, where the racing was allowed to continue during torrential rain.
“The injury to Frisby Foreman was obviously serious, but we would question the decision to put him
down. Broken shoulders in greyhounds can be repaired and they can go on to live long and happy lives
afterwards.
“Obviously, such a dog would no longer be any good for racing, which is why we believe that Frisby
Foreman’s life was ended for commercial reasons, rather than out of genuine concern for his
well-being.
“Sadly, even less serious injuries, which spectators may not be aware of, can still end up being
lethal, as greyhounds are often “put down”, if it’s considered to be not worth the money to get them
fit for racing again.
“Ex-racing greyhounds often suffer considerably in later life because of the unnatural stresses and
strains imposed on their bodies through racing on the tracks.
“Even more serious than the large number of injuries to racing dogs is the fact that many thousands
of greyhounds get put to death every year, simply because they are considered not good enough for
racing.
Our latest research indicates that over 15,000 greyhounds are “put down” annually after being judged
unsuitable to race on British tracks or when their racing “careers” come to an end, either through
age or injury.
“This means that each of Britain’s 29 major dog tracks, including Belle Vue is, on average,
responsible for the deaths of more than 500 greyhounds annually.
“According to an RSPCA statement ‘at least 20 greyhounds a day – either puppies which do not make
the track, or retired dogs aged three or four – simply disappear, presumed killed’.
“In recent years, national media exposés have highlighted the wholesale slaughter of ex-racing
greyhounds and several mass graves containing the bodies of shot greyhounds have been discovered in
various parts of the country.
“In 2006 the Sunday Times carried a story about large numbers of greyhounds, including many from
Belle Vue, being put to death for £30 a time at a so-called “Dogs Home” in Leigh.
“There are local greyhound rescue groups, who do excellent work in finding homes for some of the
dogs that ‘retire’ from racing at the stadium, but this only amounts to a minority of the greyhounds
disposed of because of the existence of the Belle Vue track.
“Greyhound racing also causes the death of many thousands of other dogs apart from greyhounds, as
places in homes and rescue kennels, which could go to other stray and ‘unwanted’ dogs, are taken up
by greyhounds got rid of by the racing industry, meaning that those other dogs are ‘put down’
because there is nowhere for them to go.
“The rules of the National Greyhound Racing Club, the body that controls dog racing at Belle Vue and
Britain’s other major tracks, encourage greyhounds to be treated as disposable commodities, by
allowing racing owners to get rid of dogs, including having them put to death, once they are no
longer of use for racing.
“Greyhound Action believes that the only real solution to this horrific state of affairs is for
commercial greyhound racing to be ended. Six states in the USA have banned greyhound racing in
recent years, so there is no reason why a ban shouldn’t be imposed in the UK.
“In the meantime it is important to educate the public to boycott greyhound racing. If enough people
refrained from attending greyhound racing and stopped betting on races, then the activity would die
out through lack of support.
“Our local supporters demonstrate and distribute leaflets every Saturday evening out side Belle Vue,
as part of their campaign to end dog racing at the stadium.
“This latest horrific incident will, without doubt, cause them to redouble their efforts to end
commercial greyhound racing in Manchester.”
For more information, contact Tony Peters on 01562 700 043 or 07703 558724.
See also the Greyhound Action website at www.greyhoundaction.org.uk
Highly Recommended: What dog owner wouldn’t want a piece of THIS action? – Get FREE dog food!
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Galty – it wasn’t Tony’s post and it was way after you’d been “ejected”. It was me who looked into that issue and found it was common practice amongst rescue to count the same hound more than once in their figures. Can’t fault the RGT for ‘bouncing’ dogs – even with a homecheck and apparent ideal home, a hound bounced on me due to his behavioural issues. As for five times – I’d be very surprised about for the majority of hounds.
Joe – I’m not threatening anyone with ‘legal action’. Just pointing out that Donna’s antics have been stupid (and thats being kind!). If someone was advertising for your photo, address or whatever on the internet for an unknown reason, would that concern you? Actually given whats gone in the past, it worries me less these days but it does annoy me because when you start intimidating people at home, where does it stop? I have to say it would annoy me if people involved in racing had same treatment from ‘antis’ and it is something (like the attacks on Armadale) that I would strongly condemn.
As for your ignorance – read back. Happy to debate with you any time. Again you are saying that “is it the fact that we’re responsible greyhound owners” – I haven’t said that you are not. I’m well aware there ARE responsible owners. However that leads to a whole new debate…
I believe you aren’t aware of what the scottish campaign does or what it stands for. Because if you did, you’d ask me questions relating to that instead of demanding I answer questions I am telling you I can’t answer! Nothing to do with you holding an opposing view at all – I accept that and I’ll never persuade you otherwise. I’m happy with that and wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t. So feel free to return to debate.
Good for you, Donna. I’m happy to debate but I’m not happy about a ‘harrassment campaign’ where families and homes are brought into things – was there once before over this campaign and I’m not going back there. Happy to discuss any issue and I truly do mean that if you want to chat, give me a call or send me an email.
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amanda, could you please enlighten me where my wife has asked for photos or anything else on any forum if you can please tell me because i cannot believe my wife would do this .
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trudy, do you think all retirement forms are sent to every greyhound owner who race greyhounds the bulk of this litrature i think you will find goes to the tracks to be given out to those who ask for them , another thing how many owners like myself retire greyhounds to their own home or homes which they find and are properly vetted perhaps you would like to revive your figures or carry on multiplying x 100 to get fictional figures .
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Brian – re-read what I’ve written because I actually didn’t say that (common theme going down here!). Donna HAS actively encouraged others on more than one occasion to be party to a site which does exactly this. Would you like me to post what she’s written for you?
Can I ask – are you saying that if you ‘retire’ greyhounds to your own home, would you not complete a retirement form or am I reading that wrong?
If, like Trudy says, the NGRC holds this info then in your position I would be contacting them and demanding that info is made public. Wouldn’t make much difference to me how many hounds that are recorded as homed by the NGRC because no one checks up on these hounds anyway so people could say they were anywhere. Bit farcical really.
Turning it on its head and if I was a racing person, the first thing I would want is for the industry to be as transparent as possible – and I would be advocating regulation by independant (preferably government or LA) regulator.
The issue is that too much is ‘hidden’ and going on behind the scenes. If it wasn’t then there would be no examples of the likes of the latest Times article to be able to expose.
Oh and pre-empting a response. I can tell you (fact!) that the Times will not publish anything unless they are 100% certain its going on and that its factual and true. I suspect we may find another Seaham in this case where not all the info is released at once. There is undoubtedly more to come.
Just think if racing people would concentrate on whats going on within and doing something about it instead of hitting out as us ‘antis’, something could be done about this…
I’m meaning everytime something like this comes out, very few within racing admit to knowing whats going on and prefer to issue outright denial instead. I would put money on it that at least one person on here is in a position to ‘name’ names and demand action against them. I try to understand that stance but if I was in that position I’d be publicly slating them…
Off on a rant as I’m frustrated that there is never any justice for people who do this.
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amanda, 1st of all i would like to know where donna said that ? also yes all my dogs with the exception of 1 which we have not decided to retire yet has been notified to the ngrc , again you say there could be more to come out about the daniel foggo ie; sunday times report and yes i can assure you if i have my way i shall make sure it does but typically this reporter will not answer any of my calls all i get is an answer phone where i have left my name and number asking if he could call me about this issue but like many reporters they hide behind a typewriter instead of letting me ask some serious questions .
i am speaking to defra because although i am not an anti i still think this is an issue which has to be resolved not only for myself but many many people in the greyhound world .
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Mr Scase
I am not a trainer nor do I own a racing greyhound but even I know it is a requirement under the rules of racing to fill in a Retirement Form for every greyhound that retires and of course for every greyhound that is euthanased.
No Brian I don’t think the retirement forms are sent to every greyhound owner – that’s why the forms can be downloaded and printed from the link I gave in my last post………..TO MAKE THINGS SIMPLE FOR YOU.
However, perhpas they should be sent to all owners and trainers – why arent they????
If you were to complete the said Retirement Form, together with all the other owners and trainers, as is required by the rules of racing – then we would know how many ‘like yourself retire greyhounds to your own homes’ wouldn’t we?
And for that matter how many were euthanased or slaughtered!
Why should I revise my figures??????
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BTW
GOOD LUCK AMERICA ON THE ‘VOTE YES TO 3′
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Hi, my name is Bella, I am a 9 and a half year old greyhound.
I started life like so many of my kind, reared in full freedom, fed the best and catered for by my caring rearer.
At 12 months I was introduced to a schooling track, wow, that was some excitement, I couldn’t wait to go back.
At 16 months I was taken to a race track and raced for the first time against 5 other greys, the thrill of it all is beyond words..
I was sold from Ireland to my new owner Richard Newell at 2 years old and started racing at Perry Barr. My trainer continued to feed me well and exercised me regularly. I had checks at vets and muscle men manipulating me, I was in prime condition and performed to the best of my capabilities. I was stepped up in trip and started winning some good races, then Richard began to take me Open racing all over the country. I knew I was going to have some excitement every time Richard’s car drew up at the kennels and I couldn’t wait to get in the car and go racing.
I won several races and won a race on a SKY night where I was paraded around the track like I was a Queen!
I did eventually pick up an injury, an injury I could have picked up in a field just as easy as on a race track. My owner tried to fix me but alas I had to be retired.
I am now 9 and a half years old and still live at Richard’s place with a few others of my kind, we all get on but I am so jealous when Richard opens his car door and my friends jump in to go racing, I try my best to jump in there with them and go for another race, sadly I can’t, but I still get walked every day, I get fed well every day, I get the occasional run about in the nearby farmers field, I have had a good life and I am enjoying my retirement despite being unable to race.
Often when out walking with Richard he talks to me about the people out there that want to stop me and my kind from racing. I don’t understand why anyone would want to stop us from doing what we love to do. I know that thousands of my kind are rehomed upon retirement from racing and live out their lives in similar conditions to myself.
There are a few scary fairy tales about dogs being abused but Richard and I both know, along with thousands of other sensible people that these are just a small minority of cases and the people that want to stop me and my kind racing glorify these negatives when in reality the vast majority of us greyhounds have a great life, I really wouldn’t want to be any other animal!
Time for a snooze now and I’ll dream about catching that hare!
Yours Bella
Co.Cork
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Yesssssssssssssssssss………….
MASSACHUSETTS VOTES NO – THATS A BIG FAT NO – TO GREYHOUND RACING!!!
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Amanda/ Trudy
Are there a lot of greyhounds who get homed and then are brought back to the rescue centre because the new owners can’t cope and what are the general reasons for them not coping.
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Very poetic Richard
If only we could believe you have had a drastic change of heart and attitude.
Bella’s story is a far cry from your belief of how greyhounds should be treated, which you revealed less than a year ago on what you thought was a ‘private forum’.
Thankfully, it was not private and your true colours can be very graphically seen here – a leaflet printed in your honour.
http://ga.redblackandgreen.net/pdf/newell%20leaflet.pdf
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Amanda
I am glad you looked into it after the claims Peters made that any greyhound rehomed by the RGT was rehomed 5 times.
Think most people would (except JODIE)would have fell about laughting and ignored the stupidy of his rantings.
As you have investigated his claims for your self, do they stand up or did he????????.
Your mention of that site brings back memories of my finest hour when out of a membership of 152 of these 48 where banned in a single go LOL because of a post I put up on another site.
Main point is did you find out the % of dogs that have to be rehomed again by the RGT.
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trudy baker, you are the lowest of low this is the sort of thing we would expect from someone like you i refer to the graphic details in your posting but this is probably another photo from spain which is where you should be right now spreading your word and then see the consequences .i wonder is this an accusation of what richard newell has done if so please tell me more .
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Hi Donna
I would suggest Richard Newell is the lowest of the low by trying to convey to the public he is a compassionate and caring greyhound breeder and owner.
Please read the leaflet again Donna, his statements were copied from a forum – ask him – I’m sure he wont deny writing them and I am not inferring that he was responsible for the drowning of any greyhounds.
The poor greyhound pictured on the leaflet was found on an Irish beach, only a few years ago, in very similar circumstances to these two defenceless creatures who were so cruelly disposed of in August. (Rest in Peace innocent ones)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0801/1217368811973.html
And you dare to suggest I have stooped so low?
I make no apologies for telling the truth because if I and the likes of Amanda didn’t, the exploited greyhound would continue to be over bred, abused, raced to its death or slaughtered….and for what?!
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No you don’t Trudy simply because the GA write lies.
At least you had the courtesy to ask permission unlike the GA that did not ask for any permission and purposely used what I said out of context on a very sad event that occured in May 2007.
When I said “if any of my pups are not fast enough they have to go” Go as in sold on or found a home! I have rehomed plenty of greys in the last 15 years, one grey I paid £300 to be fixed up after a career ending injury, I am told the family that took him moved him to Canada with them! I could have chosen the PTS option, many would, and that is their perogative, however I didn’t and the family that now have him love him to bits.
I have never and would never have a healthy pup put down! The trip I took down to the vets was a hard one! It was for 2 pups that were both not eating properly and were being sick, they both had internal defects and the vet recommended they be put down, you are welcome to contact me for the name of the Vet who will confirm this to you. GA even rang me pretending to be someone else and asked me about the incident, I gave them the full facts of the matter, I did no wrong, the pups were both weak and could have picked up illnesses or disease that would have put the other healthy pups in danger. Of course GA didn’t print any of this!!
I did say hundreds of greys are put down before they make the track, when you consider I lost 2 in a litter of 6 through freaks of nature I stand by what I said “hundreds of greys do not make the track” BUT not thousands like the GA falsely claim.
I have been in contact with a libel solicitor and I have every right to take GA to court for malicious falsehood BUT my solicitor also advises me this is a costly action and could give GA yet more publicity, that’s the last thing I want to do. Being a family man with 3 children I do not have the funds to take GA to court But they already know that through their phone call to me. So my name is out there blackened by the GA scum. Should I ever come in to some additional monies then I still have the right to proceed with legal proceedings. I certainly doubt they will ever remove the story or apologize in public to me even though they know they have bent the truth to suit their own end on what was a very sad event! GA are scum.
For anyone that didn’t know that the GA spread lies hopefully my posting will put the record straight. GA tell lies to sensationalise and they don’t care who they harm along the way.
Anyway Trudy, thanks for giving me the opportunity to put the TRUTH out there!
As I have said before anyone is welcome to come visit Bella and my other greys, all living a very happy and fulfilling life.
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So Trudy, will you apolgize? Will the GA ever apologize? I doubt it because you all just make it up as you go along and finally you have given me the chance to put the truth out there!
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AManda “Good for you, Donna. I’m happy to debate but I’m not happy about a ‘harrassment campaign’ where families and homes are brought into things”
Hmm, then what do you call what Peters and GA and now Trudy have done to me and my family?
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Trudy
Amanda tells the truth from her Limited point of view.
You quote things that others have said with out noing one way or other if thyey are true, if you had read the Nov2007 thread and where a fair person you would not have done what you did.
http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=407701&x=2
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Trudy, GA have been spreading malicious lies about me based on nothing other than bending what I said to suit their own ends. That is a FACT. I have let it lie for a year giving you enough rope to hang yourselves! Peters is a liar, he has cleverly worded around what I said based on a very distressing time for me after being with them pups since the day they were born and being with them every day including having to watch them be cut open by a Vet in an autopsy where it was obvious the Vet’s diagnosis was correct. It is something called megasargofagus (not sure of spelling) basically the pups at weaning age cannot swallow their food properly it gets stuck in their digestive tract and they then sick it back up, they grow weak as no nutrients reach their bodies and as their brothers and sisters grow they get picked on and eventually killed by their littermates. It happens, do you not think when I wrote what I did that I was angry and distressed about having to take that trip to the vet? GA took it completely out of context knowing full well having spoken to me about it and me explaining to them what had happened yet still they decided to label me an eviul animal abuser! This has been with me since the day them pups were put down and sliced open by the vet. Neither you nor GA care about me or them pups in my opinion despite the suffering I have had to endure, you are the evil ones in my mind for taking advantage of me, a law abiding, compassionate greyhound owner and breeder of 1 litter!
Fortunately, as you have never even bothered to ask, the second litter from the mother produced 8 pups, all healthy and strong with no defects, but then you and GA only have your own interests as heart.
Still no apology? Will the leaflets be taken from the GA site? I doubt it, too ignorant to know what is right and what is wrong.
Now, after all of this time I give you the truth, what sad people you are to herass and blacken my name when I have done nothing wrong, have never had a healthy pup put down and never will. I support greyhound racing, greys love to race and I will do everything I can to show up you people for what you are!
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trudy, i think there should be an apology from yourself and the GA for what you have said and done it sickens me to think that you can be so ignorant arrogant and lie for your own ends this goes for the GA aswell .
i personally think that richard did the right thing as any caring owner or breeder would have done , are you saying trudy a vet would put an innocent pup to sleep for this condition , i wonder what the vetinary practice would think of your remarks .
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Richard
As you well know you are trying to divert attention away from the real issues by highlighting the euthanasia of your pups. All differences of opinion aside – truly sorry about the pups.
I have read the thread from start to finish where your statements were extracted from and apart from being word for word perfect on GA’s website and leaflet, in no way were they taken out of context.
Galty
As you like GD forum so much, perhaps readers may want to meander through this thread, which largely condones Richard’s sentiments and further expands on them. UGH!
http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=277894
Donna
I have not lied, so please do not feel sickened, save it for when you read Richards comments on the GD thread!
Do you now want the full unedited thread posted on here, showing EVERY comment Richard made and in what context it was said?
Or do you retract your damand for an apology?
For the record – in my humble opinion, a caring owner or breeder would not further perpetuate the breeding of greyhounds whereby 13,600 were ‘unaccounted’ for last year.
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Trudy…
“As you well know you are trying to divert attention away from the real issues by highlighting the euthanasia of your pups. All differences of opinion aside – truly sorry about the pups”
So now you are holding me accountable for all of your “real issues” You and GA hold me personally responsible for every grey that has ever been put to sleep? Are you labelling every greyhound owner an evil animal abuser or just me? Why single out my name? Why not put up Lord Lipseys name or any of the other wealthy people that run and govern this sport or is it because you are cowards and only attack innocent family men like myself as you know the chances of me taking you to court are slim?
Amanda I feel sorry for you because you are part of this organisation that has no morals, are happy to herass a law abiding citizen and my family name, just because I don’t agree with GA’s views?
Brian, they haven’t the decency to admit when they are in the wrong. I still don’t see where I have said anything that isn’t the truth other than it being taken out of context.
I can take my greys or my Jack Russell down to the vets and have any of them put down, there is no law against it, it doesn’t mean that I do or intend to do it does it?
Your country Trudy is killing innocent Afghans and Iraqi’s, does that make you a murderer?
Trudy and the GA are so ignorant they don’t have the intelligence to work out what I said.
I await any legal action against me for cruelty to animals, I await any visit from any authorities, I have dog licences for all of my dogs, there are none buried in my garden although you are welcome to dig up my plot because I need a lawn laying, anyone is welcome to visit my place and see for themselves Bella and her comrades but if I’m out I’m probably in our neighbours 8 acre field so take a walk up the lane turn right and you’ll see them running around with me enjoying themselves and keeping themselves fit.
You simply accuse people of being an evil animal abuser with no proof other than words that I repeat were taken out of context on what was a very sad and emotional event.
I’ll ask you one last question Trudy: would you have had those pups put down on the advice of the vet to protect the other healthy pups in the litter and prevent them from being torn apart by their littermates which in nature would have been the most likely outcome? If you fail to answer I’ll assume you would which in your mind makes you an evil animal abuser.
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Hello Di – apologies for delay in responding. Have a sick hound…
As far as ‘bouncing’ hounds go, it depends really. We live in a very disposable society.
My first hound from the RGT bounced prior to coming here – the home he was in immediately before he came here was unsuitable for lots of reasons but essentially they didn’t realise what they were taking on and with the behavioural issues my hound would have been hard to home anyway.
Going on a recent homecheck I did, I knocked back someone on the grounds that they kept telling me they knew better about the fencing being adequate (only 4 foot high) I tried to explain but the impression I was left with was that they weren’t listening on this issue, it was to be their first greyhound and they hadn’t researched the breed, so it was a no. I think they were under the impression because they’d had dogs before, they ‘knew it’. I believe a lot of people don’t understand the breed and the issues which always concerns me.
For my own ‘bounced’ hound. To this day, I don’t know what went wrong. He was a 6 month old pup (picked up as a stray – cyst on pad made him lame) and the family were very positive, took on board the issues and in general, made the ‘perfect’ family. Although Max was very hand shy, they were prepared to work through it and they did. They had two other dogs (not hounds) On paper and after two checks, they appeared perfect. Six months later totally out of the blue, they phoned me and said I’d need to go pick him up, they’d decided he didn’t fit in with their other dogs. Tried to discuss the issues with them, but I could tell that they’d made their choice and my priority was Max, not them. No idea what went so wrong, but I found out later that they had taken on a BC pup days after Max was picked up. I think the novelty of a ‘rescue’ dog had worn off – their other two dogs were bought as pups. In retrospect, I still can’t see what went so wrong becuase Max didn’t display any obvious issues and still hasn’t and everytime I homecheck for hounds or any other breed (i’m involved with several other breed rescues) I have that in the back of my head. But knowing from other breed rescues, the problem is society. Max was successfully homed afterwards and has been there for four years now so it worked out well in the end. Its never happened since (touch wood)
All the hounds I home are homed with the stipulation that I retain ownership, they are chipped to me and I require to be informed immediately if they die, go missing and they must be returned to me if anything goes wrong. I keep in touch with all owners and have a good relationship with them all and to date, they’ve all kept me up to date. All hounds are neutered, vaccinated, chipped, flea’d and wormed and a few have also had dentals. I have to say I am very strict when it comes to homing however better to be strict than to put any hound at any form of risk.
There is a flapping kennels nearby. Its on the road so if anyone stops to admire the hounds, the guy asks them if they want one. Kind of people who end up walking away from this kennels ten minutes afterwards with their ‘new pet’, are totally not the kind of people who are able to look after themselves let alone a hound. One poor bitch was let off the lead just hours after she’d been handed over and was killed by being run over. These people went back to tell the kennels guy. What did he do? Handed them over another one. We’ve spoken to this guy and even offered him to contact us for rehoming but he hasn’t to date and to be honest I don’t think he will.
Fortunately the majority of hound rescues are very strict with homechecks and conditions they place on adopters.
But I would undoubtedly say the biggest issue with homing hounds is the issues they come with usually due to lack of socialisation, unfamiliar environment, SA etc. Just my opinion.
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Tom – your comment on 6th November, 2008 at 8:35 am (apologies again)
I really don’t remember Tony mentioning the RGT. It was my issues with the RGT that were discussed there. I’m still a member and if you can recall rough date (my brain is minced – I’m thinking it was maybe 2001 or so?), I’ll check back. If you recall the RGT themselves were concerned around the issues relating to the branch I dealt with and shortly afterwards there were ‘changes’ to that branch? If i get time tomorrow, I’ll see whether I can get time to look back and see but i’m certain the only RGT issues were the ones that I had, which brought further issues into play.
The RGT made some odd claims if I remember rightly when I had the huge argument with them. Again, more or less, ultimately they refused to answer.
I’ve just received the annual report for a major all breed dog rescue and checked through. Nowhere does it report returned dogs or whether the total figures include dogs returned. I might write to them and ask if I get time and/or remember.
Richard – next time I’m in Ireland, I may take you up on the offer of meeting Bella and her friends… But sorry – what has happened to you and your family? Am feeling like I’m missing something…
Tom (again). Limited point of view? With respect, I’m on the other side of it therefore my opinion is not ‘limited’ but the conclusion I have come to from my own experiences. I don’t describe your viewpoint as ‘limited’ and never will because I believe you simply see the solution differently.
Richard – “Amanda I feel sorry for you because you are part of this organisation that has no morals, are happy to herass a law abiding citizen and my family name, just because I don’t agree with GA’s views?”
Am thinking ‘thats rich’ because you are part of an industry that over produces and slaughters healthy dogs however I’m not holding you responsible for what David Smith, for example, did. Trudy isn’t part of GA. I’m not part of GA. I run the Scottish campaign to raise awareness on the plight of the racing greyhound. We hold the ultimate aim to ban greyhound racing and as we initially set up as a GA branch, we held on to the name and still wanted to come under the umbrella (its all in our constitution) simply because we do involve ourselves in *some* things in England. We share the same aims and objectives but our approaches do differ because the greyhound issues in Scotland are different. I have no idea why on earth you ‘feel sorry for me’ but please – don’t. I know where my morals are.
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Amanda
Thank you for your reply.
It seems to me that whatever the breed of dog, people just don’t understand them . Obviously with greyhounds a 5/6ft fence is a must and letting them off leads is only for the privileged (extremely well behaved)few and again only in certain places LOL !!!!
I really do think that this country needs an extensive new training regime to make owners understand how to behave with dogs and then there would be a lot less dogs sent to the rescues and then sent back again . There is a book by John Fisher called ‘ Think Dog ‘ and it is a must for all dog owners .It discusses all the topics like SA, socialisation etc. and tells you why these problems happen and how to overcome them .
Back to greys again, just out of interest,one of my retired dogs got so terribly distressed by the awful fireworks we had on Wednesday & Friday night that he was physically sick. I had to tranqulise him on Saturday night, yet when he was racing the fireworks never bothered him . 2 of my racers ran on Friday and they were fine. I am sure it is because their minds are pre occupied with the excitement of racing .
Regards
Di Hilsley
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Hi
I agree to a certain extent that people don’t understand breeds and their needs – Staffies being the obvious other breed which is massively misunderstood. Sadly thats not an issue thats easy to solve though I do try to work on it. Its not just dogs that are the issue – I’ve had everything from dumped rats, cats and mice to a GSD x through here. I can’t see a way of changing this though although I do believe the new puppy farm legislation may go some way to stopping a lot of issues relating to breeding defects and sick dogs. This will undoubtedly reduce the strain on rescue but it won’t be enough.
With greyhounds its very different to other breeds issues because essentially you have a 3 – 4 year old dog who doesn’t know how to be a pet dog and doesn’t understand how it is to live in a house. There’s also the issue of lack of socialisation with other breeds/animals and that they’ve rarely, if ever, been left alone, where a non-greyhound won’t necessarily face these issues. I do strongly believe more needs to be done about this early on in a greyhounds life. There doesn’t appear to be any preparation for when they finish racing. Its hard for them to adjust. I don’t think my Tully ever really has.
All of mine are here because they would be hard to home due to their issues. Only three out of my five can be let off lead but even then, only in certain places. Both also have arthritis due to racing injuries so it wouldn’t be possible even if they didn’t have fear aggression/no recall. But without exception, I think the issues they have are down to being racing greyhounds and not pets. Even the Lurcher has issues relating to being kennelled from a young age (his mum was a racing greyhound dumped pregnant by collie type) and rehomed several times. That could have happened to any type of dog I suppose but as much as I adore collie x lurchers, they are a bizarre mix of personality and breed traits. And I do feel situations like my lurcher was in is completely ignored. For example, the RGT would not have picked up a litter of Lurchers. No different to breed rescues (although they do bend the rules) though.
None of my hounds even wake from their sleep during fireworks. I’ve never really had any reaction from the hounds. However the Lurcher barks at every firework he hears. But then he barks at everything! One thing I have noticed with my hounds is if one reacts to somehitng, they’ll all react. I wonder if this is the case as far as ‘fears’ go? Some of the hounds I’ve homed have been in bad ways due to fireworks however DAP defusers and Kalms can work for them.
Am off to Amazon now to look for ‘Think Dog’. I don’t really do behaviouralist stuff as such – I think I’m just very tolerant of the issues they have and believe that a safe secure environment and lots of pampering works for me. I think mine are all happy here and although they all have their individual issues, they are settled, relaxed and all have such fab individual personalities.
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Amanda
At the beginning of this year I had 3 retired greys at home. Rover was the hardest by far and had also spent the longest time in kennels ( 4 1/2 years ) but I reduced his SA considerably and also his aggression to other dogs when we are out walking , which was probably more fear of the unknown mixed with his sheer desire and determination to kill small fluffy things (grins). I did this by sticking to the pack leader theory ( which definately works) and to a strict routine.He could however never be let off a lead( I tried a couple of times !! ) but he was always more than happy having a potter around my garden .
Lady adapted to the house with no problem as did Treasure, although I did have a problem between Rover and Treasure but after a little fight between them ,when I wasn’t there,it was sorted out . I have lost Lady & Rover( cancer )this year ( sobs) and have just 5 weeks ago rehomed Lulu who had been in the kennels all of her 6 1/2 years . Again I have had no problems, it is my job to lead her and tell her what I expect ie: the settee is mine and she can use it when I am not on there LOL !!!! It is ,to me, very interesting watching her get more confident and more relaxed being a pet as each week passes .
I hope you enjoy and learn as much as I have from the Think Dog book and can then put your knowledge to good use in preparing new owners on how to cope and live happily with their new dogs .
BTW I had lurchers before the greyhounds and have a lot of passion for them aswell .
As for fireworks I haven’t found that the fear is passed on for the sake of it, just a bad experience can kick start it in some .
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Sorry to hear about your hounds. Its awful to lose them. But so much worse when its ‘premature’.
Sam’s fear aggression is particular towards black labs but its a nightmare because they are such “rude” dogs and most owners don’t appear to believe labs need to be onlead or at least, control them so they don’t bother a very distressed, muzzled, on lead greyhound. Sam was “retired” at 21 months because he is/was terrified of men and the trainer couldn’t get near enough to him to do anything with him. He’s improved loads – he’s now 10 and a lot more relaxed in his old age. He will tolerate men though you can tell he’s just not comfortable in the company of men he doesn’t know. He has had seizures which means I don’t allow him to get into stressful situations any more because the drugs to treat seizures are barbituate based and the prognosis if he ever starts the drugs is less than six months. So far he doesn’t need them.
Clad has no recall whatsoever. She was one of those hounds who came in with no ’soul’ behind the eyes and the fractured hock that hadn’t been given time to heal didn’t help because she was bothered by that. It took a long time and lots of patience to get her to react to simple things like being petted. She’s pretty bombproof with kids, small furries and other dogs and is the kind of greyhound you use to encourage people to rehome one! But she does like to dig – carpets and duvets are her speciality. I’d thought that was boredom however I think its more about nesting now because she’ll do it even after she’s supposed to be exhausted after a long walk.
Tully is different. He was bouncing off walls and urinating blood when he came here. His owner was busted for giving his hounds cocaine last year. The penny dropped on so many issues and having researched the after effects of that in dogs, it would explain a lot of the problems we’ve dealt with and the ones he still has. Tully can’t bear to be without Clad – he howls and causes real damage if he is left without her. He likes to be near her at all times. If she ever needs to go to the vet, he has to come too. She isn’t so bothered about him but I think bitches are much more aloof than the boys.
All of the rehomed hounds have settled down although some have issues. I rehomed four hounds to the same home. They live on a big country estate and managed to bring down a deer – you worry so much about small furries and it never occurs to you that something like deer would be at risk… I think all of the homes my hounds are in, without exception, are perfect for them.
As for fireworks. One of my older bitches,Linda, who my parents fostered until she died had heart problems and she literally had a heart attack one night due to fireworks. I’ll never forget how distressed my dad was over that – he only had her 18 months but he was so attached to her. She died a few weeks after. Another heart attack which, although she was a very sick hound, I believe that night with the fireworks brought her end closer.
Anyway I’m rambling. Have ordered Think Dog and will let you know what I think once I’ve read it.
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I personally couldn’t care less that a small number of trainers “feed their dogs steak”, rehome them with friends, yadda yadda – the fact remains that even genuinely caring owners/trainers are actively supporting, participating in and boosting the profits of an activity that causes thousands of dogs per year to be destroyed in their prime, or who (if they’re very unlucky) get shipped abroad to fates even worse than death.
If you care so much about dogs, why try to whitewash the whole industry with your pollyanna tales of retired hounds living in domestic bliss?
Why not instead unite and withdraw from the racing industry unless, and until, the “few” bad apples have been forced out of business?
If you care so much, why not show it this way? With all due respect to GA (who I support) you would get more media coverage, and see faster results, than years of campaigning by activists and animal lovers has so far achieved.
Is the thrill of seeing your dog race against another worth SO much that you blackout the knowledge that the racing industry causes the suffering and death of healthy dogs on a massive scale?
Because, if it is – I’m sorry, but you’re right down there with the worst abusers, as accomplices who are facilitating their actions by your own selfishness and apathy.
I’m challenging you now, please: to either take appropriate and lawful public action within your own industry, involving the media and with clear accountability and criteria for what you want – or from now on to remain silent when it receives due criticism by people who are appalled at the loss of life, and the suffering, that goes on needlessly each year in the UK (and abroad, but that’s another issue).
Before anyone wonders (or whinges), I’ve owned 3 retired greys over the years, 2 of whom are sadly no longer with me, and like most other people who care about this issue I do not fit any stereotypes of “scum” that the racing apologists happen to care to throw at us.
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Charlie
Once again in this life we have the scenario that all those who play by the rules have to stop because of those that don’t play by the rules .
It is time to start hitting back at the bad ones and stop penalising the good ones .
Do none of the ‘antis’ not think that if they are successful in banning greyhound racing then the bad ones in our sport will just go underground and the abuse will continue.
Every greyhound I buy is one that will be treated well and will always get a home with me after their racing days .
It is time for you all to pull together and stop knocking the good ones and concentrate on ousting out the bad ones and not just in the greyhound world .
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Sorry Charlie, no matter how well you care for your dog/s, taking on a dog knowing you’ll be getting rid/selling/rehoming the dog after a set amount of time is very wrong. Dogs build strong bonds with their owners what gives you the right to take a dog on knowing you’ll be breaking that bond after a set amount of time.
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Sorry I didn’t read your post properly, I just realised you said the dogs retire with you. I assume this means they are all kept as family members within your home.
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D, I respect that you care about your own dogs, but does it not bother you at all that for nothing more than your own enjoyment you’re furthering the interests of abusers?
That the dogs YOUR dog beats in a race, or bumps, may have a short painful life and an inhumane death ahead of them?
If you have a child, would you enter them in a fun school competition, knowing that their competitors may meet miserable deaths, or be PTS the minute they fail to turn a profit? Of course not!
And how do you deal with the overbreeding issue? For every proven racer you buy and look after for life, there are dogs and puppies being literally thrown away, before the few who can race make it to the tracks.
There are ALWAYS going to be superfluous dogs, dogs who just won’t chase, can’t run, or are not suitable – I cannot understand how any dog lover can ignore this issue. My first dog alone was one of a litter of eight puppies according to Greyhound Data – only four raced, with varying success: the rest have vanished into who knows where.
Regarding the unfairness of it all – do you not understand that this isn’t like the issue of, say, binge drinking, in which governments and health bodies consider restrictions on all of us?
I put it to you that you are ultimately as culpable as the abusers – because the racing prize money your hounds compete for, the industry that facilitates the races from trap to high street bookies, and many owners of dogs they race against, are all part of the same industry which causes misery to countless thousands of gentle healthy dogs each year. You aren’t racing your dogs in isolation here.
I bank with one of the ethical banks that doesn’t support the arms trade, because I care about who and what I associate myself with, and what causes I support – isn’t it time that the pro-racing, pro-dog people thought it through – and refused to be associated financially with the abusers out there?
And I utterly reject the argument that making things totally illegal just drives them underground in this scenario – unlike dog fights, which can happen in any space a few yards wide, racing needs tracks or a run, traps, and more than a handful of participants – it’s nowhere near as simple to set up a race that will be credible enough to raise bets, as it is to throw two pitbulls at each other and watch them rip each other apart.
Finally, why do people who say they care about dogs spend so much time attacking us “antis” (name calling, ad hominem attacks and so on, all feature in the posts above, and on most online discussions about this issue) – and yet I see no ongoing campaign in the media, or anywhere else, whereby you all take a strong united stance each time an abused dog, or a dead dog with their ears hacked off, is found on wasteland or drowned in a river?
My mum used to tell me to clean my own room up, or she’d do it for me and throw everything in the bin – I don’t mean to be rude, but people like you have failed to clean up your own industry, even on issues as simple and non-controversial as safe track design: thousands of dogs are STILL suffering and dying each year, so I’m afraid that telling people like me we have no right to get involved, just doesn’t hold water.
Anyway – give your dogs a hug, and please think about what I’m asking here, and what you can do to pursuade the people who DON’T care about dogs to back off – not those of us who do.
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Hi Lisa, there seems to be some confusion (not surprising in a thread this length!) – I’m anti-racing, and have adopted 3 ex-racers over the years, giving them each a home for life. 2 are now gone (RIP) PTS when they became too ill with cancer to walk: my current hound has countless behavioural issues solely as a result of the way he was raised – away from other dogs, and in a kennel, not a home.
Which is a whole other issue! And one for a later post, perhaps.
Charlie
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Ah! Very sorry Charlie, that’ll teach me for jumping on a thread without reading it properly! My post should have been aimed at D Hilsley.
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Lisa
Glad you made the right connection LOL !!!!
Yes my racers come home to me and I adore them ( smiles). I wouldn’t have it any other way and I dread the day when I bring a racer home which really cannot get on with my other dogs, but I am in a very lucky position in which I know my trainer will always look after my dogs . As far as I am concerned any dog that comes into my life stays in my life .
Charlie
Yes , it bothers me greatly that some dogs are treated the way that they are, not only greyhounds but all dogs and all animals, which is why I say it is time to act upon all the evils of man. I cannot watch the IAMS advert without thinking about the video I have seen showing the way the dogs they test on are treated, it makes me weep and is just so unncessary. The programme about the fighting dogs, well , just disgusting . At least the majority of greyhounds are treated well when they are racing and if we didn’t have these people wanting everything their own way ie: anti racing, anti hunts brigade we could slowly weed out these animal abusers. IMO because of the anti’s we now have human beings feeling guilty and then instead of having their dogs PTS humanly ( Vets or bolt gun ) we have them panicking and there begins the abuse .
The anti’s are going about it the wrong way . I personally would rather see a dog live a short life to the full and then humanly PTS than a longer miserable life which ends in an awful death because it’s owners don’t want want the antis on their backs .
You have to open your eyes and understand that not all humans see animals as pets and maybe not all animals want to be pets. There are many many ‘ pets ‘ in this world that have no life at all .
Over breeding of greyhounds is a big problem that even the racing fraternity agree is a problem and is something that needs addressing immediately as does puppy farming . The breeder I generally buy from in Ireland would ( and does ) put these puppy farmers to shame .
I will not hold myself responsible for the ignorant b**stards that abuse animals as I will not hold myself responsible for all the publicans who allow people to get steaming drunk in their pubs and then watch them go off and abuse all and sundry, I am a publican and I hold myself responsible for those that drink in my pub and I WILL NOT serve any one that is already over the top and I take full responsibility for my pub .
We live in an awful throw away society ( grrrr ) and all I personally ask in life is that while animals are alive they are treated with the respect they deserve .
As far as name calling to the antis, I haven’t myself come across an anti in person, but I am led to believe that these people will not listen to anyone but themselves and IMO maybe it is time that the antis stopped spreading so many lies and started working with the racing people to we get the best deal for the dogs which is in most peoples interest , ie: we MUST together stop this selling of dogs to spain !!!!!!!!!
One thing I can’t always understand is why so may antis say ” this greyhound is a retired racer which is why he has so many behavioural issues ” … I have just asked my husband the following question …. ‘What difference do you see in the lurchers we bought as puppies and our retired greyhounds ?? ‘ and his answer was “none, if anything the greys are better behaved because you yourself have learnt more about dogs” . I have 4 customers of mine that through me have homed greyhounds and none of them have any issues with their greyhounds !!!!! As I have said in a previous post, one of my recently departed greys was a nightmare when I first had him home but after a while with guidance from me he improved immensly,sadly like you I lost him very suddenly to cancer as I did another of my retired greys ( both this year ~ I am very very sad ) and I miss them both very very much .
I really do wish that you antis could meet my trainer and her husband and see the way all our dogs live because I defy you to say they are abused.
I would never ever put my dogs with someone that didn’t look after them to the highest standard . maybe if all the greyhound trainers in this world were like mine all you antis would be redundant .
As for injuries, my dear retired grey ‘Treasure’ has put his hip out running around my garden with my newly retired bitch !!!, but only tonight my trainers husband has said , bring him up to the kennels and we will treat him , you don’t get that with normal pets eh !!!!.
On a final note , please tell me what behavioural issues your dog has and I may be able to help you .
And I have given my dogs hugs but they were from me not you LOL !!!!!
Di
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Through details obtained from a request under the Freedom Of Information act, greyhound protection groups will be holding a Remembrance Ceremony tomorrow, Sunday 16th, at Belle Vue in memory of the greyhounds who have been euthanased at the stadium since September 2007.
In eight separate months, 39 greyhounds were pts due to an injury and a further 7 at the owner’s request.
Please consider one minute’s silence at 12 noon as a mark of respect for these greyhounds that have died in the name of ‘sport’.
Run fast – run free at last………
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charlie,
you seem to know a lot about the greyhound industry so can you answer a simple question where do the anti’s get their figures from ?
i would like an answer on this because none of the other anti’s including tony peters can answer this .
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Donna
I have posted many times on here detailing figures.
Here are just some of them.
18,864 Greyhound Retirement forms processed last year by the NGRC – Supplied by NGRC Calendar Magazine
13,600 greyhound puppies unaccounted for last year in Ireland. 12,819 greyhounds exported to UK in 2007 -supplied by the Irish Greyhound Board under a Freedom of Information request.
46 greyhounds euthanased at Belle Vue in 8 separate months over the last 12 months, then used for research and dissection, paid for by the BGRB – supplied by Liverpool University under a Freedom of Information request.
If there are any other figures you would like me try and ascertain, please let me know and I will do my best to supply them.
Regards
Trudy
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trudy baker
right you do not have to register dogs which go flapping or independant racing, you do not have to notify the ngrc when you find a new home for your own greyhounds all you need to do is notify the ngrc that it has been retired .
so where can you obtain true and not fasical figures from .
where do your figures come from about bellvue or is this another piece of the anti’s spin
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Mr Scase
I have told you the Belle Vue figures have been obtained through a request under the Freedom Of Information act.
DO NOT SUGGEST IT IS ANOTHER PIECE OF ANTI’S SPIN.
I am sure if it was ’spin’, Mr Watkins – your new GBGB chairman and a solicitor by profession – would have me in court faster than you could say ‘its a fair cop gov’
I am sure you will have realised by now that true figures are hard to obtain – at least from the industry.
But they are out there, it just takes time, a deep love for greyhounds, a passion for justice, a hatred for corruption and exploitation to eventually be rewarded with the truth!
Something I suspect, you will not want to hear in any event.
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Oh and please do tell me which of my figures you consider farcical?
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I posted yesterday but it didn’t post and then the site went funny.
The basics of it was Donna/Brian. You tell me how many dogs you think there are?
And does it really matter if its 200 or 20,000?
Healthy greyhounds die. End of argument.
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trudy,
you wouldnt know the truth if it bit your bum , i just wonder how many so called pets NOT GREYHOUNDS will suffer this christmas perhaps you can find those facts and figures although i wouldnt consider you wouldnt give a darn .
amanda,
end of argument i suppose you think you have won but the lies being told by the anti’s such as they closed the stow supposedly that is the kind of rubbish tony peters and the like would want you to beleive .
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Its sod all to do with lies, Brian.
Are you denying that any greyhounds die due to your “sport”?
Its not about ‘winning’. Its about stopping the unnecessary death and destruction.
Forget personalities and who says what because I don’t care less about individuals. I only care about one thing – greyhounds.
Maybe it makes you feel better to point the finger and scream abotu ‘lies’ but thats just dodging the reality.
FACT – greyhounds die after providing human entertainment.
I ask you again – does it really matter how many?
Do you really think its acceptable for this to continue?
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I challenge you Mr Scase, to disprove any facts or figures I have quoted on this blog or on Greytexploitations website.
To seriously consider taking that challenge, you will need to read the APGAW and Donoughue reports in their entirety.
For the record, I care about all animal and human exploitation, but as in the case of the greyhound, no other domestic animal is over bred and culled to the same extent, with the use of EU funding – for entertainment purposes.
No other dog is used as purely a betting medium and then disposed of in huge numbers once they can no longer provide a service.
But yet again, we see a supporter of the racing industry, desperately attempt to deflect attention from their failing argument by raising other animal welfare issues.
How very sad it is, that you concern yourself with the welfare of other animals – whilst greyhounds in YOUR sport are exploited day in day out and your attempts to address that exploiation consist of fighting the very groups who want to protect and improve welfare for the greyhound.
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trudy baker,
i wonder whether you watched the bbc documentry inside out which were saying about the terrible plight of puppy farms of pet dogs not greyhounds but from a breeder who is not supposed to be doing this at least in the greyhound world this does NOT happen so perhaps you anti’s should look at the real problem that is going on and leave greyhound people ALONE .
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What a sad end for the two year old greyhound, murdered at the Belle Vue track! Such an exploited sad life, but only to be expected from the racing fraternity. It makes me sick to the stomach, having had three rescued exracing greyhounds myself. What beautiful, elegant, gentle creatures they are! Please, please, anyone who can, get to any demos at your nearest track. The sooner greyhound racing is killed in the UK the better!
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Brian
There IS a REAL problem in greyhound racing. Surely you are not denying that? Are you asking us to ignore this?
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Shirley Stones
What do you mean by “MURDERED” and ” such an exploited sad life “, you have obviously never been to a well kept greyhound kennel and seen how well they are kept and how they respond when they know they are going racing .
Do humans not work until retirement age ??????
Last Sunday I asked my trainer yet again “do MY greyhounds enjoy their racing” and her answer was ” absolutely and when they don’t I will tell you and then you can take them home ”
I repeat what I have said previously that there is no place in greyhound racing for abuse, but unfortunately as in life there are always the few that let everyone else down and we hate them .
Only today some ‘rich bit of totty’ stopped me and asked if I was a dog walker as she saw me everyday walking my retired greys and after a brief conversation I got the idea that she wanted me to walk her dog for her because although she was rich , didn’t work and lived right on the path to the field , she couldn’t be bothered to walk her own dog even though she said ‘I quite often think he looks unhappy’ and when I said ‘actually I work an 80 hour week so really don’t have the time to walk your dog ‘ she just said ‘oh well if you do fancy walking mine aswell it would help him ‘. You people have no idea about real life .
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